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#1
06-17-2010, 10:25 PM
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Don't forget one of the main reasons we are in this pickle is because oblamea is slick. Remeber we had record turn outs of first time minority voters, first time young voters, and first time immigrant voters. I heard with my own ears the bs slogans they were passing even in Texas. One moron in particular stood outside the local wal-mart screaming "We are going to vote Bush out of office! No third term for Bush!" No matter how many times somebody tried to calmly tell this joker Presidents can't serve more than two terms he would go back to screaming the same thing over and over. He was getting very low income and low education minorities and imigrants, and first time young voters to sign up to vote democrate. By the way the ones that wanted to sign up to vote but told him they were voting against obama got turned away. It was a minor scandal at best.
Slick is as slick does. GoodOlBoy
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(Moderator - Gear & Gadgets, Cowboy Action, SouthWest Regional, Small Game) GoodOlBoy@huntchat.com For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. - Ecclesiastes 8:15 KJV "The gun has been called the great equalizer, meaning that a small person with a gun is equal to a large person, but it is a great equalizer in another way, too. It insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed." - 40th President of the United States Ronald Reagan 1911-2004 
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#2
06-18-2010, 06:12 AM
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This is going to sound far fetched to you, but the real change occours at your city and county levels. Do not just vote for people that other keep picking for you to vote for. Go find a good man or woman, talk to them, get them to run for election and support them with your time and effort, not just a check. Get the lawyers and professional politicians out of our city halls, county commission and state houses. Put real people back in office. Never vote for a lawyer for any office, unless you have to, they are professional liars.
Yes vote for the best people come this November, but do not let this stop there. We need to clean house, we need to scrub the floors with lye soap to get the stench out, starting with our own community! Your neighbors are begging for real people to elect and so are you, go find them yourself. Ed
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The three Rs: Respect for self; Respect for others; and responsibility for all your actions. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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#3
06-22-2010, 10:52 PM
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I can say the same thing for most of the professions out there. Most people in society are freaking liars. I wonder how many people actually get stopped by the police and answer all the questions truthfully or decline to answer questions because they do not want to lie and incriminate themselves. Yeah, it is only the attorneys. More like the attorney's clients that are the liars. I have had clients lie on the stand and I have had witnesses and opposing parties lie on the stand. But hey, the lack or honesty and responsibility issue is an attorney issue, not a society issue. Ultimately, attorneys advise their clients on what the law is and what the clients' options are. It is up to the clients to decide what action they want to take.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
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#4
06-23-2010, 12:44 AM
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin
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#5
06-23-2010, 12:56 AM
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Under your reasoning, ANY lawyer elected to ANY legislative position would have a potential conflict of interest because WHATEVER law gets passed needs to be interpreted, applied, and possibly litigated. You used tax law as an example, but what about criminal laws, construction laws, patent laws, copyright laws, etc. They are all LAWS that lawyers deal with daily. Then, even assuming that we do away with lawyers in legislatures, what are we going to do with elected law enforcement officers, elected construciton workers, etc. when their field comes up? What about the issue of electing older folks since we have an issue with health care and social security. Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest for them too? What happens if we elect a bunch of young people that decide to do away with social security because they will never receive it, isn't that a conflict of interest too. Ultimately, our politicians should do what we the people want them to do, regardless of the conflict. I don't think Congress wants to make the tax code any more onerous than it is, but it just isn't easy to cut it down right now without going to a straight flat tax and that would only last a year before special exceptions are applied to provide incentive to do things like save for retirement, purchase a home, make homes more energy efficient, etc. Plus, how would a bunch of construction workers even pass laws? They can hardly read the current laws as it is. Who would draft up the new laws for them. Don't tell me they would need to hire attorneys to draft those new laws and put their ideas into legal statutes. Now, as far as feeling like you didn't keep your nose clean because you need the services of a lawyer, that just isn't always true. Just recently, I have had a couple of clients pass away without wills, and the assets didn't go quite the way the surviving spouse had thought they would. Yeah, they kept their nose clean during their lifetime until one of them passed away. Then, without having received any advice from an attorney during their lifetime, the surviving spouse is up a creek with a dirty nose that he/she didn't receive from an attorney. Same goes for start up businesses. How smart is it to start a business without getting the advise of an attorney? I'm not saying it should never be done, but before taking out a 2nd mortgage on a home to start this business, don't you think a little legal advise might be in order. Think of it like preventative medicine.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
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#6
06-23-2010, 01:06 AM
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Fabs..
They came here illegally..your parents didn't..Why should illegals have the vote?? Even if they are made legal..And it seems as though you don't get it..It's a point to be made..it ain't just dollars and cents..I'm sorry the immigrant issue is so close to you..but legal and illegal are two different things. If they are well to do what are they wanting to come here for?? Why reward illegal activity..There are hundreds of thousands of people who try to get here legally and we are going to reward illegals?? Fabs..you just don't get it. I hate to disillusion you so badly..but sometimes the issues should only be black and white with NO gray areas.. But gray areas are an attorney's life blood and I know it as well as you do..so you will always try to skirt the black/ white and get gray. As far as Obama's policies..With the way he has tried to sell this country down the river..I will never compromise with him or his policies. I don't know how any true America citizen ever could.
And as far as your next post cause I know it'll be there... I don't think any attorney should ever vote for or against a law that may affect his future work. We had many legislators in the past who were not attorneys and they helped write some of the laws of this land. Don't forget just because a person is a butcher baker candlestick maker...doesn't necessarily mean he is an idiot..It seems as though that being an attorney is on the job training for legislator/Polictician NOW..all that being said..GO TO BED..its 2 in the mornin...there. That's where I'm goin and it's only midnight here.
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin
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#7
06-23-2010, 01:21 AM
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Anyway, I will agree about the voting issue, until they become citizens. However, I don't think non-citizens can vote anyway. The part that you are not getting, is that the penalty to apply for the permanent visa is $15,000 in "back taxes". They aren't getting a free lunch, it will cost them $15,000 and a clean criminal record to become legal. The other part you are not getting is that there is NO way you are going to round all these people up that are currently in the US and deport them. Common sense should tell you that. We have enough problems with criminals already that we cannot put through the system and house in jail, that we really do not need to spend additional money on enforcing our immigration laws on people that have been here for 5+ years and caused no trouble. Now, after we allow this amnesty program for a year, we really crack down. We tighten up things on the border, require local police to contact INS when they arrest somebody that does not have a green card, and we deport them. The good immigrants will come out and apply to be legal, the bad ones will eventually be rounded up and deported as they hit the system. Trust me, I'm not trying to make this a gray area. Thing is, in your utopian world we would be able to push a button and teleport these people back to Mexico. We aren't there yet, so it would take a ton of money/effort to get the job done, and who is willing to pay for that? I asked this in an earlier post, ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY MORE IN TAXES to deport 11 million+ illegals and lock down the borders. If you aren't, then you aren't really willing to support what you want. Who knows, with the additional tax revenue from the good portion of the illegals, we might be able to afford to get rid of the bad ones. The reason this is a gray issue is because it isn't easy to 1) deport them all or 2) legalize them all. There are way too many issues, and to view it as a black and white area is to be naive, or to think like a liberal with rose colored glasses on thinking that we can easily deport all 11 million + illegal immigrants. Again, I am looking at it as a realist, not an idealist dreaming of my own version of utopia. I would love to see the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker draft legislation that gets the job done that they want to get done. Keep in mind, 100 years ago things were a lot simpler than they were now, so the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker didn't really have to worry too much about things. Start talking about derivative investments and other complex issues, and we will see how the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker draft legislation on their own. I'm sure the attorneys would have a field day with a lot of it, on one side or the other, and there would be plenty of loopholes in the laws that the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker never thought were there. Back to work I go.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
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#8
06-23-2010, 09:24 AM
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Wow
[QUOTE=fabsroman;336587]
Anyway, I will agree about the voting issue, until they become citizens. However, I don't think non-citizens can vote anyway. The part that you are not getting, is that the penalty to apply for the permanent visa is $15,000 in "back taxes". They aren't getting a free lunch, it will cost them $15,000 and a clean criminal record to become legal. Well if they aren't gettin a free lunch it is surely close to it And you know the politicians will make the sdame excuses as you do and just give 'em the vote because it's only fair..Fabs..15 million votes is a BIG incentive to half crooked politicians. The other part you are not getting is that there is NO way you are going to round all these people up that are currently in the US and deport them. Common sense should tell you that. We have enough problems with criminals already that we cannot put through the system and house in jail, that we really do not need to spend additional money on enforcing our immigration laws on people that have been here for 5+ years and caused no trouble. Again..If ya can't catch 'em and send 'em back to where they came from..how ya gonna tax 'em??..Fabs...it makes no sense.. And as far as making no trouble..what part of ILLEGAL don't you get?? Rewarding people with permanent status just mkes no sense. At one time when our forefathers came here they came for many reasons..religious freedom freedom from retribution from their own governments where they came from..They also came for economic freedoms and relief from ultra high taxes and the government taking all from the working so that unproductives could live too. Why are we changing it here to those conditions..The great experiment..All those European countries ahve already tried and failed in that experiment..now they also have those same legal and illegal immigrant problems..Look at France..and other countries. Reward illegal activity with good actions and the only thing you will receive is more illegal activity. Makin 'em "pay" just doesn't cut it when as you said..you can't catch 'em anyway. Your idea about the money payment is novel...but misguided. As I said..it ain't just money.. Now, after we allow this amnesty program for a year, we really crack down. We tighten up things on the border, require local police to contact INS when they arrest somebody that does not have a green card, and we deport them. The good immigrants will come out and apply to be legal, the bad ones will eventually be rounded up and deported as they hit the system. You've already answered that one yourself..criminals are very hard to catch..The Gestapo didn't get'r'done..How will the INS?? Sheesh! Trust me, I'm not trying to make this a gray area. Thing is, in your utopian world we would be able to push a button and teleport these people back to Mexico. We aren't there yet, so it would take a ton of money/effort to get the job done, and who is willing to pay for that? I asked this in an earlier post, ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY MORE IN TAXES to deport 11 million+ illegals and lock down the borders. If you aren't, then you aren't really willing to support what you want. Who knows, with the additional tax revenue from the good portion of the illegals, we might be able to afford to get rid of the bad ones. Personally I'm willing to spend the money. I think in the end we would have a net gain in the economic situation. You haven't really looked at the cost of illegal immigration. Just check tyhe cost to San Diego county in California.. The reason this is a gray issue is because it isn't easy to 1) deport them all or 2) legalize them all. There are way too many issues, and to view it as a black and white area is to be naive, or to think like a liberal with rose colored glasses on thinking that we can easily deport all 11 million + illegal immigrants. Again, I am looking at it as a realist, not an idealist dreaming of my own version of utopia. Sorry Fabs..but you do have a utopian dream.. I never said it would be easy to deport all 15 million(insert next weeks number) illegals. What good public work is ever easy.. You think it is just an econmic issue and it isn't.. well maybe it is. The 2nd World War turned into an economic issue..why not this.. Allowing these people who have come here illegally to scoff at our laws and be rewarded for it is just wrong..Just Black and White.. Trying to say that it isn't and ignoring that fact is also wrong. Just by saying they've been here a5 yrs and didn't create any problems doesn't make it no longer an issue. Those people for 5 yrs have helped to rob the economy of the US by sending large portions of their income out of the country and into other countries..not good for our economy for certain. I would love to see the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker draft legislation that gets the job done that they want to get done. Keep in mind, 100 years ago things were a lot simpler than they were now, so the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker didn't really have to worry too much about things. Start talking about derivative investments and other complex issues, and we will see how the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker draft legislation on their own. I'm sure the attorneys would have a field day with a lot of it, on one side or the other, and there would be plenty of loopholes in the laws that the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker never thought were there. That last was written like a TRUE attorney..Loopholes!!. Lawyers have been writing legal loopholes for a couple hundred years...And you would accuse the B.B and CSM of doing it inadvertantly??..surely couldn't be any worse than we have now. That is truly an laughable statement. I have tears runnin outta my eyes while I'm typing this. You are without a doubt a hoot my friend. Fabs..there really is a time when we have to consider the illegal problem as a Black/White issue...and it has become that way now..with he idiots we have in power in this country..
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin
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