Im back for more info this time on steel shot

[mrmiskin]

OK so thanks to all your suggestions and sage advice the shot shell reloading in lead went great after I got that hole in the center with that one bb stuck in the middle of it taken care of. Now thinking about steel shot and this is what I have read so far. You need a wad within a wad to use as a spacer in your plastic wads. 20 gauge for 12 gauge wads 28 for 20 and so on. They look like they are made out of a lot of different materails. What is the best in your opinions? As far as thickness I guess you have to experiment until you get a good looking finished product. Now on top I have read about shot cards, are they necessary? I have also read the best powder is alliant steel, any thoughts? Do you need special hulls and plastic wads for steel? I understand that dropping steel shot and steel powder is pretty inconsistant and it should be measured and then put in the hull. I am using a mec junior and it has been great so far but measuring by hand is not an issue I have the rcbs powder dispenser and scale combo and it is great. finally what is a good steel shot book to get so i dont have to keep bothering you all?? Oh i am thinking of loading 12 and 20 gauge # 4's. well thanks in advance for all the advice.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

You need a wad within a wad to use as a spacer in your plastic wads. 20 gauge for 12 gauge wads 28 for 20 and so on. They look like they are made out of a lot of different materails. What is the best in your opinions?

Not all your loads would need a spacer; only those whose payload is less that what the original wad was designed for, i.e. a 1 oz load in a 1 1/8 oz wad. As far as "which is better", most loads will tell you whether you need cork, felt, wool, ect. I go with what the load calls for.

As far as thickness I guess you have to experiment until you get a good looking finished product.

Go with what the load states; if it states 1/8" felt wad, then that's what you go with.

Now on top I have read about shot cards, are they necessary?

If the load calls for it, use them.....if not, don't (BTW: none of my loads use them).

I have also read the best powder is alliant steel, any thoughts?

IMHO, I have found this to be true, although I have used Blue dot and SR4756 successfully as well. However, STEEL was specifically designed for use in steel waterfowl loads.

Do you need special hulls and plastic wads for steel?

Special wads? Yes....you can't use lead shot wads, and must use wads that are much thicker to prevent scoring of your barrel. Also, you shot charge should sit BELOW the level of the shot cup; not above as some lead ones do. The wad is there to protect the barrel from the shot; not vice versa like with lead. Special hulls? No, not really....but you can forget about using your AA or STS hulll for steel shotshell reloads; straight walled hulls such as the Federal Gold medal and Fiocchi are better suited for reloading steel.

I understand that dropping steel shot and steel powder is pretty inconsistant and it should be measured and then put in the hull. I am using a mec junior and it has been great so far but measuring by hand is not an issue I have the rcbs powder dispenser and scale combo and it is great.

STEEL powder is quite bulky and large flaked, so it doesn't flow well through a meter.....I hand weigh every charge, as well as the shot charge. Steel shot tends to be larger and bridging in the drop tube is more of a problem that with lead.

what is a good steel shot book to get so i dont have to keep bothering you all?

It's not a bother; that's why these boards exist. However, a very good reference is "Status of Steel" from Ballistic products. You can find it at:

www.ballisticproducts.com

Oh i am thinking of loading 12 and 20 gauge # 4's.

12 gauge 4's probably won't be an issue; in 20 gauge, depending on the wad, payload, & shell length, it might. The loading data given in "Status of steel" will usually tell you the maximum pellet size for any given load.

I hope I've answered your questions; I will sign off by saying that reloading steel shot can be very unforgiving, esp. when one starts substituting components. You can't get away with it like you can with lead, so I use the specific components listed as they are listed. Just keep that in mind while reloading.

Good luck, have fun, and don't hesitate to ask if you have questions.

[mrmiskin]

thanks for all the help Mr. 16 gauge sounds like i get the book and move forward from there as far ordering components.

[fabsroman]

Mr. 16 already covered everything I was going to say. The one thing I will emphasize is that I really like the BPI steel reloading manual that Mr. 16 recommended and I also like the BPI Hevi-Shot manual that they have. I think BPI is one of the better places for specialty shotgun reloading.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

The one thing I will emphasize is that I really like the BPI steel reloading manual that Mr. 16 recommended and I also like the BPI Hevi-Shot manual that they have.

I have both those manuals, as well as the 16 gauge manual and the bismuth reloading manual as well. All are very technically informative. If I have one complaint, it's that there isn't much (if any) reloading data using hulls that BP doesn't sell....I can see that they would put out data using there wads, but most of us who reload pick up our shells at the local range; having to buy hulls for reloading.....well, might as well just buy the factory loads, if that's the case.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Mr. 16 gauge

I have both those manuals, as well as the 16 gauge manual and the bismuth reloading manual as well. All are very technically informative. If I have one complaint, it's that there isn't much (if any) reloading data using hulls that BP doesn't sell....I can see that they would put out data using there wads, but most of us who reload pick up our shells at the local range; having to buy hulls for reloading.....well, might as well just buy the factory loads, if that's the case.

It is called promoting their product. Me, I'm not a big fan of having to buy their hulls either. However, I like the level of information that the manuals provide and the ability to tailor loads to what I want out of them. I think the older manuals had data using the Federal and Remington hulls. I will have to take a look at them again this weekend.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

It is called promoting their product.

Hi Fabs;
Technically, it's not "their" product....if you look at their website, they sell hulls from Cheddite, Federal, Winchester, Remington, and Rio......it's just that most folks don't have easy access to Fiocchi factory shells, so the must buy from them......almost (and I repeat, almost) a monopoly. I'm starting to think that they have exclusive distribution of Fiocchi hulls for reloading, as I haven't seen them advertised anywhere else.
Seems if you wanted to make more sales of your wads, you would give them a broader appeal, and that means more loading data for various hulls w/ various powders. Imagine if Alliant only put out loading data for Federal hulls......anybody who didn't have access to Federals would probably go to Hodgdon and get their powder as they have listings for Remington, Winchester, ect. I think that if they had a broader selection of loads, they would sell more wads....instead, they want to charge you an extra $13 for hulls as well.
At any rate, I usually order from Precision reloading for my steel wads; their load data isn't as good as the manuals from BP, but they have a broader selection with re: to hulls & powders.
And while I think that their manuals are great reference materials, their published load velocities fall way short on the mark for a lot of them (or at least the ones I've chronyed in 16 gauge).

[Mr. 16 gauge]

..it's just that most folks don't have easy access to Fiocchi factory shells, so the must buy from them......almost (and I repeat, almost) a monopoly.

I take that back.....just checked Precision reloading's site, and they now sell Fiocchi hulls (new and used).
Learn something new every day...........

[skeet]

Just a suggestion from a shotshell reloader. I did load steel shot....the bottom line is it ain't worth it. Costs a fair amount..and you can't equal the factory loadings for the most part...and to top it all off, you probably won't shoot that many shells to make it all worthwhile. I guided waterfowl hunters and didn't find it financially worthwhile and the shells for the most part were far outstripped by factory loads. This coming from a person who truly beleives in reloading..especially for shotshells. And I really shot lots of steel at waterfowl...from the 10 through the 20. and loaded the 10 and 12 ga with steel. Loading the larger sizes of shot required for ducks and geese is a real PITA. BTW 4s aren't really adequate for pheasant ducks or geese..unless within 25 to 30 yds at the most..in my opinion..preferably less

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by skeet

Just a suggestion from a shotshell reloader. I did load steel shot....the bottom line is it ain't worth it. Costs a fair amount..and you can't equal the factory loadings for the most part...and to top it all off, you probably won't shoot that many shells to make it all worthwhile. I guided waterfowl hunters and didn't find it financially worthwhile and the shells for the most part were far outstripped by factory loads. This coming from a person who truly beleives in reloading..especially for shotshells. And I truly shot lots of steel at waterfowl...from the 10 through the 20. and loaded the 10 and 12 ga with steel. Loading the larger sizes required for ducks and geese is a real PITA. BTW 4s aren't really adequate for pheasant ducks or geese..unless within 25 to 30 yds at the most..in my opinion

Heck, reloading ain't worth it at all. In the time it takes me to reload 20 boxes of target loads, I could have billed $145 to $200 worth of work. The savings on those 20 boxes, even if it is $2 a box, falls short of the mark. I do it because I like it. Haven't done much of the non-toxic though in quite a while, and just finished buying some Wingmaster HD in B and some Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote in T. I think I am going to have enough non-toxic shot for a couple of years right now.

On another note, I've got 2 geese worth of jerky marinating in the fridge right now. Went through 2 geese worth since last weekend and now I have requests for the stuff coming in from my parents, my siblings, and the people my wife works with. I am going to have to keep it away from my clients or I will have to shoot a lot more geese and open a jerky factory here.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I did load steel shot....the bottom line is it ain't worth it. Costs a fair amount..and you can't equal the factory loadings for the most part...and to top it all off, you probably won't shoot that many shells to make it all worthwhile.

Respectfully, I disagree......If you compare apples to apples, you do save money when you compare quality shells to handloads, i.e. Winchester supremes, Kent faststeel, ect. If you compare your cost to crap like Winchester Dryloks, Remington "Sportsman", and other such garbage, then yeah, maybe.....until you figure the number of shots it takes to finish off a cripple with this crap.
Also, there were a LOT Of folks who said that loading rounds such as the .380, .25 ACP, ect wasn't "worth it"......then the Obama administration came into being, panic buying ensued, and all those folks who posted that reloading these cartridges 'wasn't worth it' were posting asking where they could find ammo, or if they could find someone to reload for them.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Mr. 16 gauge

Respectfully, I disagree......If you compare apples to apples, you do save money when you compare quality shells to handloads, i.e. Winchester supremes, Kent faststeel, ect. If you compare your cost to crap like Winchester Dryloks, Remington "Sportsman", and other such garbage, then yeah, maybe.....until you figure the number of shots it takes to finish off a cripple with this crap.
Also, there were a LOT Of folks who said that loading rounds such as the .380, .25 ACP, ect wasn't "worth it"......then the Obama administration came into being, panic buying ensued, and all those folks who posted that reloading these cartridges 'wasn't worth it' were posting asking where they could find ammo, or if they could find someone to reload for them.

I bought 3 boxes of Remington "Sportsman" steel loads in 3" and after using the first box the only thing I use the other 2 boxes for is to finish off cripples with a headshot. I still cannot bring myself to twisting their necks. That is about all that "Sportsman" stuff should be used for. Complete poop if you ask me.

[skeet]

Mr 16..if you could equal the "Quality Steel" that you are talking of then it would possibly be worth loading steel if you 'needed' a lot of steel ammunition. You can make better than the junk shells fairly easily. As good as the good factory?? I doubt you can equal it. You don't have the components available to be able to make them...especially the blended powders and wads. Use of new cases would really be required to equal it. Now if you like spending the time to do it..fine..you'll come close to the commercial best, but I doubt you will equal it. I shot a lot of steel when it was the only non-toxic available..It took a lot to kill the birds because all factory steel was junk. It has gotten better and some of the best steel is really good. Hevi-shot and it's ilk are so much better and so much more expensive(but worth it) but again you won't really be able to equal any of the best non-toxic. I reload, as I'm sure you do, because I enjoy the hobby and I do save money loading target loads(we do shoot many more) and when lead was legal for waterfowl I could make loads to equal factory premium. But loading steel is in a different realm. Heck even in the metallic arena..it is becoming hard to equal the factory. Especially velocity wise. They use the same quality bullets we do...somewhat better powders and quality contol is for the most part really good. The only way we can make the metallic better is we are able to tailor the loads to our own rifles. For more years than I care to admit to...shotshell loading was my business. Enjoy the hobby for what it means to you..but in reloading steel..don't expect to equal the best factory

[Mr. 16 gauge]

As good as the good factory?? I doubt you can equal it. You don't have the components available to be able to make them...especially the blended powders and wads. Use of new cases would really be required to equal it.

Skeet;
Again, I respectfully disagree.....I am not concerned with making sure each and every shell can be fired in any gun, and as far as blended powders, ect, I don't need them....I'll stack my reloads against factory (of similar quality) any day. It has nothing to do with 'enjoyment" (although I do enjoy it), and I bet my quality control is better than anything any factory can produce.