Lyman Scopes

[Larryjk]

I have some older Lyman scopes that I know very little about, except that they seem to be very good quality for their age.
First is a Lyman All American 7/8' tube, 2 1/2x, marked "All-Weather" on the turrent. It has three dots in the reticle; the largest on center and two smaller below in decending size. Just smells of classic.
Second is a Lyman All American 1" tube, 3x, marked Perma Center on the turrent.
The third is a target scope that does not say Lyman. on the eye piece it says "10 Power" and on the adjustable objective it says "Spot-Shot R.A. Litschert". It had been on a Remington Model 37 target when I bought it. It now resides on an original Winchester Low-Wall in .22 K-Hornet.(High comb classic varmint style.
What are the 3 dots in the 7/8" all American? I am assuming 100, 200, and 300 yards in descending order (depending on the caliber).
Tell me anything to better understand the Spot-Shot Litschert.

[Jack]

Litschert was known, back in the day, for making a power boosting attachment for the low power scopes of the day. I believe you had to send whatever scope you had to Litschert, and the attachment was permanent. Many benchresters and varmint hunters of the 40's and 50's used scopes that had the power bumped up with a Litschert attachment.
I was not aware that Litschert made a complete scope, but it sure sounds like that's what you have.
I don't know what the dots on your other scope represent. Dot reticles were very popular before the advent of the duplex reticle. I think you'll have to experiment to see what the 3 dots represent. They may have been factory installed, but maybe not. The T.K.Lee company installed lots of dot reticles of various sizes- whatever you specified. BTW, T K Lee is still around, last time I looked. They have done some dot reticles for me- they do very good work. I believe their website is: www.scopedot.com.
Sounds like you have some nice old classics there!

[Jack]

A little more trivia: back in the 40's, etc, there were 2 types of scopes. The internal adjustment type, like all our scopes are today, and the external adjustment type. Back then, about the highest power you could get in an internal adjustment scope was 6x, and some makers didn't make anything more powerful than 4x.
If you wanted a high power scope, you got an external adjustment type, like the Litschert that Larry's described. Unertl was well known for making that type scope, too. Those type scopes could be had in 10x or more.
The external adjustment scopes were mounted on the barrel, with 2 brackets that held adjustment knobs. The brackets were often quite far apart. That set up did allow very repeatable and precise adjustment, at a time when repeatable and precise adjustments were far from universal, or even common.
The drawback to the external adjustment types were: they were bulky, and delicate. Also, they mounted on the barrel, which we know now is not the best thing for ultimate accuracy. That's not a new discovery - some shooters knew then that anything that interfered with barrel harmonics was not an aid to accuracy.
The internal adjustment scopes (like today's) mounted on the receiver, hence no problems with the barrel. But, not enough power for target and varmint shooters. Hence, Litschert's attachments - they were a way to get a receiver mounted scope with enough power to shoot precisely. Often you'd see a target/varmint rifle with a 6x internal adjustment scope that had been 'bumped up' to 10x, 12x, or even 18x with a Litschert attachment.

[skeet]

The 3 dot scope is probasbly set for 100-150-200 yds. Especially in 2 1/2 power. Does the 7/8 scope say all American?? They made a 7/8 scope called the Alaskan..I honestly thought all of the All Americans were 1 inch..also they made a scope a bit larger than 1 inch something like a 26 mm. The Perma center is the better of the All Americans. The older ones were set up so the reticle moved and if you didn't have a mount that would adjust a bit(like the Leupold/Redfield system) the reticle could be not centered in the scope. The scope with the power boost is probably a Lyman target. To the best of my remembrance they(Litschert) never made their own scopes..only the power boosting attachment and I think they also made an adjustable objective. How long is the target scope? What kind of mounts? I have had one or two in my time..as well as power boosted scopes. I had an old Kollmoran once that had a litschert attachment on it.. Still wasn't all that clear It was on an old Win 70 257..Sucker shot pretty good...on a good bright day

[Larryjk]

Skeet, You are absolutely right. The 7/8 inch scope is a Lyman "Alaskan" 9505 with the 3 dots. It is in Redfield type rings that would help immeasurably keeping the crosshairs in the center.It has caps over the adjustment knobs and "All-Weather" stamped on the turrents.
The target scope I thought was a Lyman but I cannot find the name anywhere on it. I feel the Litschert AO maybe an add on because it is a different color bjue than the rest of the scope. It has a large screw on the side of the attachment but I have been hesitant to loosen the screw to see if it says Lyman under the attachment. The mounts don't have anything written on them to identify them. They were not functional when I bought it but I studied them and was able to readjust it. I put it on a Model 52 Winchester that had blocks to test it and it came through with flying colors. It is 24 inches long. The main tube is a 3/4 ", including the eye piece. The objective tube behind the Litschert AO is 1 3/8" with the AO being 1.5" dia. Both ends have aluminum threaded caps and a rubber eye shield on the ocular housing. The bases on the K-Hornet barrel are only 6 7/8" apart so the adjustments aren't exactly 1/4". However, since the barrel needs replacing I have not changed the spacing to 7.2 inches. Since the stock on the rifle is high comb, the scope looks entirely in theme. The wood is crude and will also be replaced at barrel time. Can't do all of the projects at one time.