Loading for a Savage 170 Pump 30/30

[8X56MS]

I think I have finally found that Savage Pump Model 170 that I have been looking for.

My question is, does loading for this Pump rifle require small base dies?

I also have seen an article in the 2001 Gun Digest, where the Savage can be loaded to higher pressures, and can safely reach velocities in excess of 2600fps.

Comments? Suggestions?

[Rocky Raab]

I doubt that you'll need small-base dies for your Savage. I've never seen a 30-30 chamber in any gun that wasn't...let's just say "generously proportioned" shall we?

As far as getting 2600 fps from a 30-30, I think that writer dangerously exaggerated his results. Unless he used very light bullets, that kind of speed just isn't in the cards.

I wouldn't hope for much more than the factory speeds with standard-weight bullets. That means 2200 with 150-gr and 2100 with 170s. At most, add another hundred feet per second.

Nor should you expect to get target accuracy. Neither the gun nor the brass is made to the standards of the benchrest crowd. Minute of deer, sure. Minute of groundhog, just maybe.

But that should be one fine little "triente triente" you have there!

[PJgunner]

I have to agree with Rocky on this one. I'm notorious for loading hot ammo where it's appropriate, but the 30-30 is not one of those times.

I have a Winchester Model 54 chambered to the 30-30 which has a 24" barrel. This rifle with modifications became the famous Pre-64 Winchester Model 70. Now this rifle is much stronger than any lever action or pump action rifle, and I won't try for a 2600 FPS load even in that extremely strong rifle.

The problem wil not be your rifle, but the brass. No rifle is any stronger than the cartridge case sitting in it's chamber. The brass for a 30-30 is quite thin. If the brass lets go, then the rifle could also let go.

Ken Waters, in his great book PET LOADS also used a Winchester Model 54 to see just how far he could go with the 30-30. Results were extremely disappointing and brass life extremely short. I suggest you find a copy and either buy it or borrow it, if someone will allow you to do that, and read what Mr. Waters said about hot loading a 30-30.

I believe your rifle also has a tube magazine like the lever actions, so if you wanted to use spitzer type bullets, you's still be restricted to one in the magazine and one up the spout. I can't help you much on loads with jacketed bullets as all my 30-30 rifles shoot cast lead. Not only is my ammo less expensive, but they can be loaded to full powder and kill deer just fine.
Paul B.

[8X56MS]

The writer in the Gun Digest article was Norm Nelson. The load was not mentioned, other than it was using a Speer 130 Grain flat nose bullets at 2700 fps.
So far as accruacy goes, there was a reference in the same article, of Jim Carmichael's "Book of the Rifle", where he mentions a Model 170 tested with bolt and lever guns. The Savage turned in an average of under two inches for 20 groups fired at 100 yards.
The one Model 170 I have fired, was about that accurate, and right there with the best lever guns I have owned.

No I don't plan to run max loads. I have experienced good results over the years with hand loads using 170 grain flat nose JSP bullets at around 2100 fps. I have never loaded lead bullets for any of my 30/30 rifles.

Thanks for the heads up on the small base dies. I am glad that I can continue to use my old RCBS set. After several thousand rounds through those dies, they still load quality ammo.

[RugerNo3]

The 170 Savage is hard to get ahold of, but they also chambered it in the 35 Remington in its later life, FWIW. Even harder to find.

[Mickey Rat]

I have 2 Savage Bolt guns, a 340 (20" BBL) and a 840 (18" BBL). My brother has a 320 (?). I decided to seek the fastest loads. I fired all my loads across a Crony Master Alpha. I used 125, 130 & 150 grain spitzers. Guess what I found out:

1. You CAN exceed 2500 fps with a 125 gr, 2450 fps with a 130 grain, and 2350 with a 150 grain.
2. Your groups will be 2 1/2-3 inches.
3. Faster is less accurate.
4. All the old standard powders are best, although Varget and some of the newer powders are good, too.

After weeks of testing I was finishing up and fired some old cast loads (Lee 150 gr RNFP GC) loaded with WW 748. I got a 7/16" group at 1990 fps. These loads were dated 1981 and had been stored in a closed storage building subjuct to Alabama summer days of over 105 degrees. All info indicates that these loads should not work or at least missfire or have erratic velocity. NOT SO!

It was nice to prove that the shooter (me) and the gun were quite capable of producing decent groups.

I have decided to go back to testing using traditional 30-30 bullets. The magazine of the Savage puts severe limitations on COL and that in turn reduces available powder space. A lot of loads were compressed.