Which African game do you think is the most dangerous

[PhilLozano]

I have my own thoughts and will post them here after a few comments from others.

Best,
Phil

[Dom]

I dunno, tough question and would venture to guess it probably relates to what experiences one has gone thru, both good and bad. I don't have any experience on DG, but I'd probably rate them in some order as liopardelebuffippo -- they all can so some serious surgery on a creature as soft as man. Stay out of the tall grass and don't go swimming, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[ghost stalker]

they say the hippo but, the hippo doesn't seem to be a game species to me. they say the most dangerous "game "animal on the dark continent is the water buffalo. the cats are mostly night hunters (except) the cheetah as far as i know which adds another element to the equation. all i know is you better bring a big gun if you go with the intent to hunt and return home in one peice.

[PhilLozano]

I guess I was not very clear. What I intended in my post question, was, rank the Big 5. Which animal ranks as the most dangerous to hunt. Rank them 1 - 5 and it would be interesting (I think) to explain a bit why you ranked them as you did.

So, 1 - 5, which ranks where, in the most to least dangerous of, Leopard, Buffalo, Rhino, Elephant and Lion.

I have a fair amount of experience with all of them and will post my choices with a bit if an explaination on my choices, after some choices by others.

Best,
Phil
www.go-on-safari.com

[pomoxis]

I had a number of conversations with PH's and each one had the opinion "The most dangerous game is the one that gave you the closest encounter with death". All the PH's had scars from leopards that they had to follow up in the dark after a client had wounded Mr. Spots.

One PH put a lion as being number one in his book because they are big and fast. A lion charge with less than 50 yards to cover can be over faster than you can get from 1 Mississippi to 3 Mississippi. He had one that he dropped 1 meter from his feet from a "lucky shot". He did not remember raising his rifle and taking aim. He also had things go sideways when he was stalking some buffalo in some heavy brush and came across some fresh loin tracks on the buffalo tracks; the problem is that he could hear the buffalo 30 meters in front of him.

Having an elephant close from 35 yards down to 20 yards gave me a lot of respect of the early ivory hunters. Even at 35 yards it was difficult to pick out where the vital areas are.

I came close with my buffalo in that it reacted to the echo of my shot and came up the hill right at us. It squared off at 20 yards while I was reloading my rifle. It did not charge but ran 35 yards before dropping.

[Dom]

OK Phil, I'll take a stab in the dark, purely my humble opinion. I kind of hesitate on this w/o having experience, so my thoughts could change in a hurry depending on what I was getting experience on!

1. Leopard: Cats are quiet and think like predators, same as man. May not get the most kills but sure gets the jump on you.

2. Lion: I dunno, guess I got a thing for large predatory cats. Least they most times give you a grunt warning before jumping on you. Definitely acquires a taste for man.

3. Elephant: Amazing for their size how they can rumble right over you. Lot of weight with two spears up front for poking large holes in things.

4. Cape Buffalo: They're just not scared of anything. Least they don't have canines and claws.

5. Hippo: I dunno, guess I ranked him last because I'd hope to have a bit of distance and be able to spot him before he spotted me.

In my experiences, it's always who spots who first has the upper hand. Predators always have better eyes, so they'd be harder to get the upper hand on. On a final note, any of these animals could be changed to number 1 in my book mighty easily. There's a lot of variables to consider also, terrain, wounded?, etc. Anyway, that's my guess.

[PhilLozano]

I said I would wait a few days before posting my choices. Guess I will get the debate moving along by posting my list now, so here goes. I would welcome any comments or debate on this subject.

I would rank them as follows;

1 - Elephant - Very smart and very dangerous. If he gets to you, you are NOT hunting any more, or doing anything else either. I do not know ANYONE that has been caught by Tembo and is still here to tell the story. However, he can be turned (not always), to veer off if you miss the brain in just the correct place.

2 - Lion - Very fast and if he gets to you, you are in BIG trouble. He will mostly finish what he starts, so if he intends to kill you, well you know the rest. Also can be turned (but don't bet on it) to veer off .

3 - Buffalo - Most determined of all of them to get to you. Won't stop or turn. He will come straight until he kills you. . . . or you kill him. You MUST hit something in his nervous system to stop him. When he comes, forget the heart, base of the neck, etc.. However, quite a bit slower than a Lion.

4 - Leopard - Quickest of the bunch. MOST LIKELY to get to you in a charge. Least likey to kill you. The most likely % wise to make you bleed (and anyone with you, cuz, he is going to scratch everyone). He is the most likely one to put you in the hospital, but you have the best chance of walking out of the hospital (once and if you beat the infection, and you will have a serious infection depending on how many new tatoos he has given you).

5 - Rhino - White Rhino, pretty much like stalking your pick up truck parked in a large parking lot. Not very quick, and does not seem dangerous, but can be. I think the new darting hunts are MORE dangerous than a hunt to kill one (just my opinion).

Black Rhino - A lot more dangerous than the White, but slower than the others (1, 2, 3, 4). Both Black and White can kill you. But I have hunted a number of them (with clients) and never had a real problem. I would say, if you have had a problem with a Rhino, it would be the Black Rhino. Both are more agile than you might think. The Black a bit more so.

Most under rated - Hippo. They are pretty mean and can give you a go. I have been charged by more unwounded Hippo, than any other unwounded animal.
As tough as any Buffalo.

In generally, how you rate the animals will be with what animals you have had the most problems with, or had the closest calls with. That being said, I have only been charged by a few Elephants, far fewer than the rest. However, I still rate him number 1.

Thankfully, I have not left any of my own blood in Africa (yet).

I am sure other P.H.'s and other people might have different selections.
Even my Trackers have a different order.
My Trackers in the Selous, have a different opinion than my Trackers in Masailand, Moyowasi and Rungwa.

As I said, I welcome your comments.

Best regards,
Phil

[PhilLozano]

I am a little suprised, no one else has posted any further comments.

OR did I make a good case for my choices ?

Please post your views.

Thanks.

Best,
Phil

[M.T. Pockets]

Phil, welcome to the board, I enjoy reading your posts and appreciate the experience you bring to the board. I've got a question for you somewhat related to this topic:

How would you compare the good old grizzly bear in our western lower 48 states ? I'm not talking about actually hunting them because they're fully protected, but just hunting other big game in their territory such as the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, or around Glacier or in their densely populated areas in Canada. I'm thinking of the chance bear encounters you hear of each year where a hunter stumbles across a bear on a kill, or getting between a sow & her cubs or a couple 3 year olds acting like teenagers.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on the old silvertip compared to the big 5 based on your experience.

[PhilLozano]

Dear Mr. Pockets,

Thanks for the kind words.

I would say that for sure if I was going into Bear country, I would be armed with something, if it was legal to be armed in the area. And something large enough to 'take care of business'.

I have no experience with Bears. However, I would say from what I have seen (in videos and T.V.) and read, Bears are fairly tough critters.

The only thing I can do, would be to guess, based on these observations of Bears vs the animals I hunt and the approach I use. Additionally, I think the Lion is the only animal that would be simular.

Lions and Bears - Both are measured by skull size in the SCI record book, so when they come for you, you don't want to shoot them in the head, you only do so if you have to. GENERALLY, a shot to the center of the chest, will end the story.
I would think the same would be true for each, as long as you are using a true 'Stopping' rifle.

All I can really say, is this would be my best guess. Also, I would not hesitate to face or follow a Bear with the double I use and think I was undergunned. I would be most concerned that I did not know (or do not know) what a Bear's habits are when wounded. I would imagine he would go for the thick cover.

But, I do not know if they have a habit of coming back on their blood trail to wait for you, and ambush you, like more than a few Buffalo I have followed and are noted to do.

All of this is just a guess on my part. Might be better to go to the Alaska section of this forum and ask there.

This is my best guess.

Best,
Phil

[Hi Ball]

Phil, I believe the elephant the easiest to kill, once that trigger has been pulled. Most of all the elephant hunters I ever spoke too carried plenty of gun to start the hunt.

I know that cats are extremely dangerous, especially if one has to go in after a wounded cat, lying in wait as you approach him, while the sun is going down. Not my cup of tea mate!

I ranked the lion as the most dangerous to hunt, of all the big five animals.

I also agree that Daga Boy will stop at nothing until he puts his horn into you and gives you the big toss about in the sky.

[PhilLozano]

Dear Mr. Hi Ball,

Yes you are correct. Elephants can be easy to kill, IF you make the correct shot. But there is no caliber/cartridge that will match his weight in ft. pounds of energy. If you hit him correctly, with a good bullet in an adequate caliber, he will drop in his tracks.

On the other hand, if you shoot him in the chest, you will generally have a long (and where I hunt) tough tracking job. If you aim for, and miss, his brain, he is gone, and you have very little chance of finding him again. If instead of running he decides to come at you, he will be at your feet as fast as you can blink.

Lions are not nearly as smart as Elephants (IMO). Dangerous? You bet! Lions are bloody dangerous. But, you can hit him in the chest and follow his trail without too many problems, if you go slow and are observant and if you hit him well, you will find him dead. If you are following him in the bush, he generally will growl or roar and warn you of his location. Not always, but typically.

As I said before, I know a few P.H.'s that have survived to relate the story of their Lion mauling, but know no one that has been whacked by an Elephant, who is still around to tell the tale. I have heard rumors that a P.H. from Zim was killed by an Elephant last week.

Lions kill P.H.'s as well, as one did 3 years ago, when a P.H. I knew was killed.

They are ALL dangerous. That is why they call them the Big 5 and/or Dangerous Game.

As I said, people will choose based on which animals have given them the most problems or the closest calls, I think. A P.H. that does mainly Buffalo hunts, most likely will rate the Buffalo as the most dangerous, due to the fact he sees more wounded Buffalo than Lions, Leopards, etc.., and for him, he is 100% correct !

However, as I said, I have been charged by far fewer Elephants than the rest of the 5, but I still think he is the most dangerous, because he is smarter than the rest and with his sheer size and speed he can take a 'big poke' before you turn out his lights.

The Brain shot is not as easy as it appears. Yes, I can explain on the skull I have in camp and talk you through it when we see Elephants and when the moment comes, but that does not mean you will pull it off. Unless you have done it a few times, it is not all that simple.

As I said, my Trackers do not agree as to which one will do you in 'more dead' than the others. FOR ME, I would rather be standing in front of a wounded charging Lion with an empty rifle, than a wounded charging Elephant. But that may just be me. (scary thought).

If you could not defend yourself, perhaps you could get up a tree. But with an Elephant, that tactic is useless.

Each P.H. will have 'his own' list of the Big 5. I have presented mine and tried to give my reasons why I ranked them as I did.

I cannot fault your choices. They are all dangerous. I don't like following the cats into the bush when the sun is going down either.

None of them are any fun. I would rather face a Cobra with a Fishing pole, than follow a wounded Leopard when the light is fading.

I think a made a good case for my choices.

Best,
Phil

[PhilLozano]

I received this email from a friend of mine. A bit of reinforcement to confirm my choice as to "Who's # 1" !
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Rumours and speculation are rife amongst the Lowveld community on what transpired with the death of Carl Bradfield as a result of an elephant hunt that went terribly wrong on Wednesday 30th March 2005 in the Sengwe 2 hunting area. The purpose of this e mail, is to put this incident into it's proper perspective and we ask that anything contrary to this brief be put straight.

Carl Bradfield was conducting an elephant hunt with an American client and was 'spooring' two elephant when they came across one of the elephant in thick scrub. The distance between the hunting party and the elephant was approximately 20 mts.

Whilst C. Bradfield was 'glassing' the elephant to assess its suitability as a trophy, the wind changed direction, the elephant caught their scent and immediately started to charge the hunting party, upon which Carl Bradfield instructed his party to run (bombshell).

No shots were fired, nor were any shouts heard from Carl Bradfield by any member of the party.

Upon regrouping, the hunting party started searching the area for Carl Bradfield as he was not responding to their calls. They located Carl Bradfield and established that the elephant had caught and killed him, and had then left the area. Carl Bradfield had been 'tusked' once from the groin through to the chest cavity and stomped on.

This incident occurred at 07hr30.

On Thursday 31st March, 2005, at approximately mid-day, the National Parks Game Scout that had accompanied the hunting party along with the National Parks Warden from Mabalahuta, (according to National Parks Staff at Mabalahuta H.Q.) managed to track down the elephant responsible and destroyed it.

Speculation is rife as to what actually went wrong, no-one knows and never will.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

From this story, the Elephant(s) were unwounded.
Generally, Lion, Leopard and Buffalo will run off if they wind you.

I welcome your comments.

Best,
Phil

[Darkwolf]

Hmm... all food for thought. Afraid my own experience is confined to literature but I wanted to post a few observations...

Black Rhino: One of the other concepts about them is, as I understand, not just their higher level of aggressiveness vs. the White, but also their preferred habitat. They apparently seem to prefer thicker brush for food (being browsers) and security. Wheras the "pick-up" white is an open-ground grazer most of the time. Hence the encounter with Faro were often at close range and by surprise, given his scent and hearing were more accurate than yours....

Myself, I often wonder if the buffalo's standing might also be a little boosted in recent years by the fact that he is the most economical and common of the Big 5 to hunt, and therefore not only frequently more encountered but also by lesser-experienced hunters? Might put up the odds of a bad encounter. Just a thot.


Oh, and on the Grizz question. Also factor in that the species has not been hunted in the Lower 48 for decades, so have less fear of man... and have developed a nasty habit of "Dinner-Bell" syndrome, being attracted to the sound of gunfire in order to rob hunters of their kills. Not many dangerous game animals are actually attracted to the presence of a distracted hunter with his hands deep inside an elk or deer....

[pomoxis]

One thing about elephants that you will also need to consider is the tusk less female. Because of past ivory hunting the number of tusk less animals in the population (percentage wise) has increase over the years.

These toothless (often ladies) need to take food from tusked animals and by that fact become more aggressive or starve. They are also more likely to raid crops since they don't need to strip tree branches for food. Now you have an animal that has agressive tendencies and encounters with people. Put them in a herd and protecting young elephants you decrease the chances that it is a bluff charge.

What really surprised me during my safari was how well the elephant can hide in cover. We had one elephant close the gap from 35 meters down to 20 meters; it was more curious of what was making the noise and came to investigate. I am going to try to attach the photograph from 25 meters.

That was the second elephant of the day. The first one we spotted sleeping in some brush while tracking buffalo. We by passed the elephant without any problem and got back on the buffalo track, as we moved up the hill to the buffalo we spotted the herd. We really wanted to circle down wind but that would put our scent right down to the elephant. As we moved to the side the buffalo spooked and ran down the hill, which spooked the elephant which ran up the hill to spook us.

Needless to say there was a lot of spooking going on in a short timeframe.