Just a thought

[Valigator]

I have been reading and hearing more and more about the Presidents plan to allow work visa's for illegals, due to the fact many American business's depend on these workers either seasonally or to keep their prices competitive.....Ok I am following that......but as I was pondering this...why cant we use inmates that are presently incarcerated for non-violent offenses to do this same work? Many times these inmates have to contibute to a victims reparation fund apon release. I mean think about it....a majority of any particular states fund goes to its Corrections budget....why dont we utilize the work force we have? Hey just a thought.

[fabsroman]

First off, I do not believe you can force an inmate to work. The question is how many are actually willing to work.

The next question is how many business owners really want to hire inmates to make their products. Could you imagine if it got out that a company was using inmates to manufacture its goods or provide services. That would definitely have a negative impact on customer perception of the business.

[Nulle]

I work alot with inmates and DOC kids and they have done a great job for me and as a matter of fact I had one DOC girl work as Shelter Tech two months while my regular gal was out for back surgery and she did a fine job and gave her a chance at starting a new and better life.

[wrenchman]

i think it is a great idea many of your non violent offender are first timers and could youse a hand so they wont be back.

[Valigator]

I could swallow an inmate making my products and keeping my dollars on home turf alot easier than opening borders, handing out drivers licenses and pumping out babies in the emergency rooms....what do you mean you cant force an inmate to work? If these business's are willing to pay 5-10 bucks hour for illegals, I would venture inmates would jump on those jobs...plus bank it for release....

[fabsroman]

Exactly what I said, you cannot force inmates to work. As far as illegals getting $10 an hour to work, that is a stretch. Maybe some do, but not most. I have a granite counter top client that pays his guys anywhere between $400 to $600 a week and these guys work 6 days a week and about 50 hours a week. All of them are barely legal. Now, that translates to around $10 an hour, but they all have pretty decent skills in fabricating granite counter tops.

Last I checked, most "first time offenders" are not in jail because they get probation or a suspended sentence. I think we are talking about "first time in-jailers."

As far as rumors getting out, do you think it will make the headlines if a company hires a bunch of illegals or if a company hires a bunch of criminals from a newly created program to give criminals a second chance?

This program would have to be sold to the American public and the borders closed before any big company in the US would agree to participate in the program. Reputations are very important. Look at how Ford's reputation was tarnished by the Firestone tire incident. Good reputations in the business world take a lot of effort to create and maintain, but are easy to lose. If you are the CEO of Ford or any other big company, do you want to take such a chance? Not that Ford would hire illegals in the first place.

Maybe the program would fly with mom and pop stores, but isn't there already something called a work release program? I know of a guy that was sentenced to 10 months in jail on his 4th DWI offense. However, he was granted work release for 6 of the 10 months.

Also, who is to say that these "first time criminals" didn't have a job before they went to jail. I know a guy that just did 15 days in jail for driving on a suspended license. In essence, it was actually a violation of probation issue because he got caught a second time driving on suspended. He had a job painting cars where he was making close to $100,000 a year. If he were spending more than 12 days in jail I bet he would be asking for work release so that he could go back to painting cars and making more than $10 an hour.

Solutions aren't always as simple as they seem.

As far as pumping out babies in the emergency room, I know of plenty of welfare recipients that are doing just that and they are not immigrants or illegals.

Quite honestly, I am all for closing the borders, affordable health care, less smog, less traffic, less crime, more jobs, a higher standard of living, better health care, less law suits, les stringent gun laws, better environmental protection, etc., but solutions to these wants aren't always simple.

[denton]

There was a recent experiment with letting inmates staff call centers. It gives them meaningful work to do, while keeping them inside. No idea how it worked out, but an interesting step toward Valigator's suggestion.

[gregarat]

Sounds good to me..

We already have "work relese programs" for inmates.

Several corection oficers I know tell me the inmates who participate in work relese, are the inmates who want to be productive members of society.

I think that the inmates who want in on these programs should also atend classes for a G.E.D., or some other form of education. I mean we spend tons of money to have these guys who lift weights, and learn to be better criminals. Why cant we redirect this cash into something that is helpfull for everyone?


As to the employers who dont hire non violent cons. I think thats plain DISCRIMINATION. Too bad you cant prove the employer is discriminating. I have famly members who made a very bad decision 10+ years ago who cant get a McDonalds job.

I dont wana sound live a bleeding heart Lib, but I would rather hire my briliant American cousin who knocked someone out in 92. Over someone who cannot speak English, has NO education, and who knows what they did where they came from?


Yeah... use imigrants to do the work we are too good for! . Isnt that why we have the Irish?

[BILLY D.]

HI VAL

THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH YOUR THOUGHT IS IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE. BUT THAT DOESN'T WASH NOWADAYS.

GREG HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS ALSO.

OH. AND GREG THE IRISH WEREN'T THE ONLY ONES TO FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY. THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF BLACKS, POLES, ITALIANS, GERMANS, CHINESE, JAPANESE ETC. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE DEALS, IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR PLIGHT WORK YOURSELF INTO SOMETHING BETTER.

[fabsroman]

Yep, my parents would be the Italians that worked themselves into something better.

As far as discriminating against a person based upon their criminal background, that is completely allowed. Nothing wrong with that.

I also want to point out that it is illegal to hire anybody without a work visa/green card.

Maybe the work release program just has to be publicized a little more so that employers know about.

As far as not knowing the criminal record of immigrants, I completely agree with that. I have a client from El Salvador that has been in this country for 11 years. He is 33 years old right now and he started out in California. From California he moved to Maryland 7 years ago. His criminal record doesn't look bad in Maryland, but he did tell me that he got into trouble with the law 4 years ago regarding a domestic dispute with his wife. So far, I have represented him in 2 criminal matters, he was represented by a different attorney right before me on a DWI, and I have another matter coming up with him. At first, he lied to me about the domestic charge, but when I told him that I was going to pull his criminal record to show the judge what a good guy he is, he fessed up. I didn't pull his record in California, but at the last trial/hearing where the judge gave him a PBJ, the judge actually swore him in and asked him about his criminal record from California and El Salvador. Of course, my client said that he has never been in trouble until this rash of incidents, not necessarily using those words. Somehow, I do not believe him.

Again, solving these types of problems isn't easy.

[TreeDoc]

I have a granite counter top client that pays his guys anywhere between $400 to $600 a week and these guys work 6 days a week and about 50 hours a week. All of them are barely legal.

Isn't that like being just a "little bit" or "barely" pregnant?

As to the employers who dont hire non violent cons. I think thats plain DISCRIMINATION. Too bad you cant prove the employer is discriminating. I have famly members who made a very bad decision 10+ years ago who cant get a McDonalds job.

So as an employer which I am, should I be forced to hire a CPA who was convicted of Embezzlement or a felon convicted of Burglary? Here in California one of the release programs for convicts is wildland firefighting. These guys are trained to do very similar work to what my business does. I get lots of these guy wishing to submit applications for employment. A few are likely reformed, the majority are not, in fact many I have interviewed are just revolving door criminals looking for a quick job to satisfy their parole officers that they are trying to become normal citizens which I'll tell you is far from the case! You would never see me having a one on one with these guys unless I packing heat. Some of these guys are real scary and you never know how they would react when you turn them down for employment. The liberal lawyers have fixed it for them to some degree as legally I can ask them if they have been convicted of a felony but I cannot ask them what it was they did, if I do I would have a law suit from the Labor Board slapped on me like you wouldn't believe so why the hell should I even take that chance?

Ever read the Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck? There's your answer to our labor force with a twist. We have millions on the roll for Welfare Programs. Most are able and fit to work but choose not to because it is easier to stay at home and make babies and collect food stamps, etc.. I say if they wan't to participate in AFDC, Welfare, or any other program that offers assistance then the choose from from a list of jobs otherwise under the bridges and overpasses you go!

[multibeard]

I live in an agricultural area, fruit, asparagus, and various other rather labor intensive products.

We have a great influx of migrants of Mexican decent, US citizens, legals, and illegals from Mexico. Every one says that we have to have them to do the job.

If EVERYONE that did that work got the benifits they get that might not be true. There are millions of workers that are paid minimum wage with no benifits what so ever.

The field workers here get "FREE" heathcare, childcare, food stamps and housing to name a few.

What benifits would I get if I did the same job. ------NOTHING----

Give every one the same benifits and maybe we wouldn't have to be dependant on the Migrants

[gregarat]

OH. AND GREG THE IRISH WEREN'T THE ONLY ONES TO FALL INTO THAT CATEGORY. THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF BLACKS, POLES, ITALIANS, GERMANS, CHINESE, JAPANESE ETC. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE DEALS, IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR PLIGHT WORK YOURSELF INTO SOMETHING BETTER.

Your right.

[Nulle]

Well I paid my 17 yr old fill in Shelter Tech $10 an hour and she also worked at a fast food place.
I have a waiting list of guys in County that want to help do things for me and the outside employers pay very well to these folks, meaning they get paid same as a non-jail person.
We don't take abvantage of them so we can make an extra buck in these parts.

[fabsroman]

Nulle,

I think you live in a different part of the world than TD and I, and I am not saying that to be offensive. It is tough to put all criminals into a specific category or to even lump people together.

TD,

Can't you do a background check on these guys without getting into trouble? I cannot believe that you have to hire people without knowing what there rap sheet looks like.

I could add some more on this thread, but it is too late right now and I am too tired. I'll check it again in the morning and add another 2 cents worth if there is anything else posted.