Armalite Rifles

fabsroman · #1 07-25-2005, 02:54 PM

What does everybody think about the Armalite line of rifles based upon the !R-15 design.

Secifically, I am interested in getting the AR-10(T) which is in .308 and is guaranteed to deliver MOA at 100 yards. Should I be worried about anything regarding this gun?

Rapier · #2 07-25-2005, 05:12 PM

Fabsroman,
I have a 10T with two uppers, a 308 factory SS barrel, green furniture with a Springfield Armory Gen III scope. I also have a Medesha 260 upper with a SS, 1-8 twist, fluted, Kreager barrel. The 260 sports a 4x16x56 Hakko MPZ, military and police tactical scope.

The 308, first time out, shot .502 inch groups at 100 with 42 grains of H4198 under a 168 Hornady BTHP for 2517 fps. Once I got POA to coincide with POI, the Springfield scope shot point of aim out to 500 yards with a 4 inch group at 500 in a cross wind of about 20 K .

The 260, first time out shot .130 inch groups at 100 with the 120 Sierra MK. Load was a very hot 48 gr of H414 under the Sierra. All loads are .003 off.

Both configurations are fairly heavy.

I do not care much for the trigger, it comes pretty gritty and is much heavier than I am use to.

Gil Martin · #3 07-25-2005, 05:14 PM

fabs,
These appear to be quality guns with a long history and loyal following. I hope the prices have come down a bit since we now are in the post-ban era. The MOA claim may or may not be valid and certainly depends on a number of factors. The abilities of the shooter, the ammo, and the firearm all play a part. Good choice and good luck. All the best...
Gil

Skinny Shooter · #4 07-25-2005, 05:27 PM

I'd like to get the AR10(T) Ultra in 300 SAUM. It has just a bit more oomph over the 308win.

fabsroman · #5 07-25-2005, 06:20 PM

Skinny,

I saw that gun on the website, but there was no price with it, which leads me to believe that it is going to be high. Plus, the mags are limited to 5 rounds only (i.e., there will be no high capacity mags). The gun I am looking at is around $2,100 new. Is this a reasonable amount?

Now, onto some questions I have been thinking about. If I get the .308, can I change the upper to a different cartridge later? I didn't see any with the .260 round, so I will guess that the upper for that comes from a different manufacturer. However, I was thinking about getting the .300 SAUM and possibly the .223 upper at a later date? Will the .223 work with a base from the .308? Are the bottoms the same among the AR-15 family of guns or do they differ.

I just received the Sportsman Guide catalog and saw a ton of high capacity mags in there for the AR-15. Will these work in the AR-10(T) and are they universal among the AR-15 style of guns?

Regarding the trigger on the AR-10(T), I thought I read that it was set at 4.5 lbs. Is that correct? While a bit heavy for me, I think I could live with it. If I cannot live with it, could a smith reduce it to 3 lbs and make it smooth?

Rapier · #6 07-26-2005, 07:35 AM

-The gun I am looking at is around $2,100 new. Is this a reasonable amount?

**The AR 10T sells for $2,000 plus dollars new. But you can find discounts on the web. Armalite is the best, then Eagle (a division of Armalite) and then the rest. The AR 10T is not cheap and is rated as the best of its class for competition.

-Now, onto some questions I have been thinking about. If I get the .308, can I change the upper to a different cartridge later?

**Yes, several companies make uppers. The only catch is the bolt, it must be headspaced for each upper or you will need a bolt for each.

-I didn't see any with the .260 round, so I will guess that the upper for that comes from a different manufacturer.

**Armalite does not offer a 260 at present, based on the info on their site. Many folks offer the 260 and the chambering is one of the best for 1000 yard. My 260 upper is built on an Armalite upper receiver that is marked 243.

-However, I was thinking about getting the .300 SAUM and possibly the .223 upper at a later date? Will the .223 work with a base from the .308? Are the bottoms the same among the AR-15 family of guns or do they differ.

**The 223 will not work in the AR10T without serious modification. The bolt face is much to large, the recoil system is heavier than the 223, the magazine is the same size as the M-14. The AR10 does not take the standard AR15 magazine size. The 300 SAUM is available from several builders and requires a beefed up recoil system as I understand. There are some folks building bigger bore ARs than the 300.

-I just received the Sportsman Guide catalog and saw a ton of high capacity mags in there for the AR-15. Will these work in the AR-10(T) and are they universal among the AR-15 style of guns?

**No, The 10T comes with two 10 round mags. But, you can buy 20 round mags for the AR 10. The rifle is heavy to start with, at 10 1/2 pounds, without sights or ammo. It is not something that you would want to run around with in the woods all day.

-Regarding the trigger on the AR-10(T), I thought I read that it was set at 4.5 lbs. Is that correct? While a bit heavy for me, I think I could live with it. If I cannot live with it, could a smith reduce it to 3 lbs and make it smooth?

** You asked about detractions. The trigger as it comes from the factory, even though listed a a national match trigger, requires some work, in my opinion. You can have the trigger smoothed and lightened or replaced with a better aftermarket trigger. Yes it is about 4.5 lbs.

**You did not ask, but I will tell you. A long time ago, about 40 years now, I had an M-14 with a scope, issued to me for social purposes. I did like the 14 at the time, but things change with technology. Today, for social work, I would not trade the AR for two 14s. Oh, that 500 yard group was shot in about 12 seconds, with the first round hitting the left eye, just off the bridge..... seeing the muzzle flash in the scope, what a rush of memories.

fabsroman · #7 07-26-2005, 10:54 AM

Thanks Rapier.

I did some research last night on the Armalite site and answered some of my questions, but thanks for taking care of the remainder and confirming what I had thought from my review of the Armalite site.

Onto another question. The Armalite site says that soft tipped ammo should not be used, only FMJ or ammo with a hard tip, which I would assume that Barnes X bullets would qualify. The reason they suggest this is because soft tip ammo doesn't feed correctly and could cause a reliability issue. Have you noticed any of this, or do you only use hard tipped ammo?

Rapier · #8 07-26-2005, 01:00 PM

Fabsroman,
The only bullets I use in the 308 are the 168 Hornady BTHP match bullets, due to the scope reticle settings which are pre etched for that bullet weight and design. I have had no problem with the HP design deforming or being inaccurate.

The AR uses the standard AR style ramp (almost no ramp) which could be pretty rough on bullets. I would think that a spire point might work and that the plastic tipped bullets (like the Nosler BT) would do OK.

I have shot Sierra's varmit bullets (87 and 100) and the Hornady Interlock 140 in the 260 without ill effect. You just have to make sure the bullet is well into the case so that it remains aligned after getting banged around by the bolt, ramp, chamber, etc.