Keyhole Problems

Drew_CarreyAB · #1 09-13-2005, 01:47 AM

I cast my own 200gr bullets with a LYMAN #314299AV 2 cavity mould. Right now I am using pure lead, no gas checks, alox bullet lube(Orange smelly crap LOL), and swaging them to .311. My dilema today is that I went to the range with 10 rounds loaded with 13.5gr of GREEN DOT (Max Load in LYMAN Cast Handbook +/- 1550fps) The only difference between the rounds was the use of REMINGTON 9 1/2 MAGNUM primers and CCI 200 primers. I was keyholing them @ 50 yards. The only thing I can think of right now is to not swage them and shoot them as cast, or go to the 210gr version (it has a lot more bearing area, i.e longer shank).

I did try to work up loads with this powder and what-not but I had the rifle leaned up against the chair and it fell over bending the tube on my FAVORITE scope, I was mad(but that's another story....Can anyone tell me where I can buy and send a scope to get a new (i.e same as my busted scope) recticle???? Thanks.

Rocky Raab · #2 09-13-2005, 09:20 AM

It's the pure lead. You need a harder alloy for rifle bullets. Pure lead has a Brinell Hardness Number of 5, whereas most sources (like Lyman themselves) recommend a BHN of at least 20 for high-velocity rifle loads. Even with a BHN that high, you're going to need a gas check.

If you can't get some commercially cast gas-checked bullets to try, you'll have to make up your own alloy. Wheelweights are moderately hard, and only need a bit of extra tin or antimony. That's why casters use so many wheelweights as bullet alloy. You can also drop cast bullets right out of the mold into cold water to harden them even more.

Lots of tips could be added here, but get a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for a college education in bullet casting.

The scope? What brand is it?

model 70 · #3 09-13-2005, 10:13 AM

i could sell you ALL the (used) wheelweights you would want.

Jack · #4 09-13-2005, 12:52 PM

I agree with Rocky- you need a harder alloy for your rifle load.
I suspect your barrel's well leaded up now, too. Clean it before you try any more loads.
As to your scope, more info needed.... brand, etc.

Drew_CarreyAB · #5 09-13-2005, 01:13 PM

Well the scope was bought about 6 years ago from a pawn shop...It was a 4x12x40 with an adjustable objective and had an electro point illumination system....... the sight itself is what I want (the scope tube is bent and kinked, so its garbage). The sight had a 3-4mil dot in the center surrounded by a ring and then there were 2 verticle and 1 horizontal(bottom) lines in the sight picture but not touching the circle itself. I thought I had a picture but I can't find it right now.

Rocky, I have the CastHandbook from Lyman. So wat you guys figure is to use up some of the wheelweight bullets that I cast(I have like 1-200 of them) and then drop some gas checks on? If I use the gas checks where would I find info on load data?? The Lyman book only gives a max velocity of 1550 fps using Green Dot. Is there other powders I could use i.e IMR 4350, Re 19, etc.etc???

Lone Star · #6 09-13-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Right now I am using pure lead,...So wat you guys figure is to use up some of the wheelweight bullets that I cast(I have like 1-200 of them)...?

You can't expect to get good help if you don't tell us the facts. First you say you're using pure lead, then you say you're using wheelweights.....there is a big difference. Please tell us exactly what alloy you are casting!

Ditto for the scope - what brand is it? There is little we can do to help without that information.

As for the use of GreenDot - what is the cartridge you are reloading for? That particular information would help us a lot. I could assume that you are loading for a .303 British (the Canadian address and a .314" bullet suggest this) but we need to know the facts in order to give you advice. I'm not meaning to be overly harsh here, but heck, we aren't mind readers!

toxic111 · #7 09-13-2005, 06:28 PM

Drew has cast both for the .303 Brit. THe loads he was shooting were the pure lead bullets. He has some he has not loaded up yet that are cast from wheel weights.

Rocky Raab · #8 09-14-2005, 05:24 PM

Okey doke...here's what I THINK we're saying.

The loads with pure lead bullets were junko. You also have some (I asume identical) bullets made with wheelweights, also without gas checks.

If that's correct, you can start by giving the barrel a really good clean. It's likely leaded up badly. Then put the pure lead bullets aside for future remelting (good for muzzleloader balls or bullets as is or for mixing with tin/antimony - or fish weights).

You MIGHT be able to shoot the non-GC wheelweight bullets at much reduced speed. If you back down as far as 7 grains of Green Dot, you'd be in the 1200-1300 fps range. But at 13 grains, you'll need a gas check.

Now for the scope, what I think you mean is that you just want the same reticle design, but in a new and different scope. Right?

Drew_CarreyAB · #9 09-14-2005, 07:36 PM

Rocky, you are correct in all aspects. The recticle I want to keep but in a new rifle......where do I look????
I have cast same design bullet but in pure lead and wheelweight.
The barrel was cleaned before, after, and between the two 5 shot groups.
And also in the Lyman's CastHandbook I must admit that their bullets were GC'd.
What do you think is happening??? The 13gr Green Dot is gas cutting the round causing it to tumble?? Should I run some "as-cast" to see if that makes a difference???
Thanks Rocky and all yous guys & gals.

Rocky Raab · #10 09-14-2005, 09:10 PM

Heck, I'm ALWAYS right in all aspects, LOL!!!!!

The pure lead bullets are simply too soft. They "wipe" off lead in the rifling like a stepped-on Popsicle on a hot concrete walk.

Now, understand that MOST cast lead bullets are too hard -yeah, I know...contradiction. But when I say that, I'm talking about handgun bullets. RIFLE bullets are (or need to be) much harder than handgun projectiles. It's a gas pressure thing.

If you divide the maximum pressure of a load - and it matters not if you use CUP or PSI - by 1400, you'll get the "best" BHN for that load. I put "best" in quotes because a lot of other factors like lube, gas checks, bearing length, powder burning temps and such, come into play. But generally speaking, you won't go wrong with that formula.

In the great old .303, you are probably running near 36,000 psi/cup (I had to use 30-06 data, but it can't be far off) with 13.5 gr of Green Dot. So, the correct BHN would be 36000/1400 or almost 26. That's higher than almost any lead alloy you can obtain.

Translation - you gotta gas check those bullets.

Drew_CarreyAB · #11 09-15-2005, 11:04 PM

But if you use wheelweights (mix) wouldn't you get a BHN close to that and then drop them into the oven around 450 degrees for an hour, then right from the oven into cold water........wouldn't that give you 30+ BHN?????? Just trying to remember what Lyman Cast Book said, so I may be wrong LOL

Rocky Raab · #12 09-16-2005, 08:14 AM

There's no standard mix for wheelweights, so it's difficult to say, but most straight WW bullets will be about BHN 15.

You can oven heattreat them, or just drop them into water straight from the mould and that will harden them up some. The immediate drop is fine if you don't need to resize them. But if you have to reduce their diameter, it'll soften them again.