Barnes bullet question

[Bounty Hunter]

question for all of the people who have killed game with Barnes TSX bullets. it has been my experience with traditional leadcore bullets(BONDED OR NOT) that you can get them too fast and from a killing perspective do yourself a disservice ie; having to track etc.-- slow it down a little and you don't have that problem. now i have two loads for the 120grn. TSX that shoot equally well one @3200fps. the other@3000fps..(actually chronographed). naturally i would like to shoot the 3200' load but don't want to create a problem either. i have read many many threads and this looks like a great hunting bullet. i am not real concerned about the 100yd. shot cause we have the luxury of hunting out of box blinds w/good rests, so neck shots are available. i am talking about the 250-350 yd shot. i won't shoot farther than that, just wait for another day(patience is a virtue). has anyone been able to make them blow up or do they pretty well stay together @ all velocities?

thanks
Bounty Hunter

[denton]

Not exactly a direct response to your question, but the following graph may be helpful. It is from a study done on 180 grain 30 cal bullets, various brands, various impact speeds on soggy phone books. I would expect the TSX to have terminal characteristics reasonably similar to the Barnes X.

[Bounty Hunter]

if i'm looking @ your graph correctly 3200fps will be perfect.
thanks

BH

[trex]

Can anyone explain why the terminal effects would actually decrease when going from say 2600fps to 2800fps, but increase when going from 2600fps to 3000+fps? It seems like the graph should be more even to me. Meaning a gradual decrease in terminal effect as the speed increases. Not the dips and hills it's showing. Just wondering???

[Ol` Joe]

Denton I take it this is the penatration found with these bullets or was it retained wgt? How big was the samples or were these one shot numbers?

I`m not a big fan of Phone book performance as it relates to killing game with the exception as to whether or not penitration will be deeper with on bullet then the other. IE: if bullet X didn`t give enough penitration on game, bullet Y shows less in paper and likely won`t either.

The X-bullet for example may or may not expand fast enough on a deers neck to insure a good kill. The Ballistic tip on the other hand should but might stop on a shoulder ball and fail to give enough penitration to achive a clean kill. I would aim for bone with a X type bullet and try to avoid it with fast expanding ones.

This is all inre to deer sized game and elk or moose would change the type and caliber of the bullet needed of course.........

[denton]

The graph is based on data from the Sciuschutti (SP??) study that was published a few years ago. He fired multiple brands of bullets, three at each impact speed, and took the mean. So each point you see is the mean of three bullets. Vertical axis is penetration in inches.

Part of the test was that he fired bullets into roadkill deer, and verified that the mean penetration in wet phone books is about the same as mean penetration in roadkill deer. However, as you were hinting, the variability of penetration in actual deer is much greater than the variability in phone books... i.e., phone books give you a nice, tight distribution, while actual deer give a much broader distribution... more variation.

[Lone Star]

Can anyone explain why the terminal effects would actually decrease when going from say 2600fps to 2800fps, but increase when going from 2600fps to 3000+fps?

Few real-world graphs of anything are straight lines, but it still seems odd to me that four of six designs show a decrease in depth ar ca. 2900 fps. I can only guess as to why - perhaps the books for that test were not as wet as those used in other tests?

Most certainly for a single design, as the mushroom expands it offers more resistance to penetration, so penetration would be reduced as the velocity increases and the mushroom gets bigger. However, if at one velocity the mushroom blows off - which can happen with Partitions and with X-Bullets and probably with others - the bullet has a smaller effective diameter and would penetrate deeper. But as the bullet loses weight it has less momentum and would penetrate less. The chart helps to put these ideas into perspective. Remember that these were impact velocities (I assume), not muzzle velocities.

[fabsroman]

Bounty Hunter,

The Barnes X bullets are designed to stay together at any speed, so you do not have to worry about them blowing up. They are 100% copper and usually retain 99 to 98% of their weight. I shoot 150 gr. Barnes XLC bullets out of my .300 Win Mag and haven't had a problem with them yet. I killed two bucks at 100 yards and two does at 250 yards with them and they worked just fine in all four instances.

So, to answer your question, use the 3,200 fps load with the Barnes bullet and you should be fine.

[Cossack]

Using a 120 gr I'd opt for the faster bullet. 200 fps will not make ANY difference to the Barnes X. I've pushed them that hard in a 280 and 100's in a 25/06. They don't blow up or "pencil out." They do open up and keep penetrating, creating a uniform wound channel, usually exiting the other side, and causing major systemic disruption in the process.
The lighter bullet pushed faster will give you greater kenetic energy since velocity is a bigger factor that weight. And you'll get flatter trajectory in the process.
I've got 18 one shot kills in a row going with Barnes in a variety of medium calibers, including a 260 cal XP handgun.
Only one with TSX (a 140 gr doing 2900 out of a 7/08) but judging from the results it's more of a very good thing; with even better accuracy and less fouling.
I've also taken several neck shots but find that hitting them in the lungs (where there is more water to open them, they work best with hydrostatic pressure) just under the spine, produces the most spectacular instant kills.

PS. I can't comment on the graph but using a 130 X out of a 7/08 I once shot the LENGTH of a big MN buck. The bullet hit at the neck/body junction and transversed the entire body (he was looking head-on) and lodged under the hide of the right ham.
He didn't move a step. Another buck at a measured 265 yards..complete penetration....dead deer. An elk at 260+ with a 7mm Saum and 150's. And several deer up close and personal. Nothing, not one, went even 50 yards.

[Bounty Hunter]

cossack

thanks for the reply, i'm very encouraged by your success. i'm the one who sent you an e-mail this past weekend when i noticed that you were getting 2900' out of a 140grn in the 7/08. if i'm able to duplicate that i might take it elk hunting next year. man 7/08 is a sweet cartridge.

B H

[Gotcha!]

Just shot a deer yesterday with a 130 TSX out of a 260 @ 2730 (chrono'd). It was shot at 390 (lazered) yards. Sierra Suite shows 400 yd velocity should be around 2165. Broke both shoulders and blew the top off the heart. Considerable hydraulic shock evidence both on entrance and exit. Since I was alone and shooting at an extreme uphill angle, I did not see the moment of impact. When I reached the deer 20 minutes later he was stone dead about 10 feet down the hill from first blood sign. Conclusion - works great!

[Cossack]

You have a PM re the 140 TSX load

[Bounty Hunter]

got it

AGAIN THANKS

BH