accuracy article

[hofts]

me thinks a lot of truth in this article!!

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/reloading_subpage.htm

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

Oh boy I am glad to know that thre belt on the .375 & .300 H&H is there because of the gently sloping shoulder and not so they headspace and extract easily in break action doubles and the single shot rifle which were popular when these cartridge were introduced

Hmm I wonder why the American manufactuers still use a belt then is it's "superfluous". And I notice that annealing is now not required to get the case to it's critical tempreture. Anealing requires the metal to get to it's critical temp otherwise it does not work

He has obviously does not think much of Lee's stuff and mentions it in passing whilst plugging others . The collect type dies work well and apart from Lee others make their own version of collet dies. I have dies by at least 4 makers and they all do the job theywere designed for. About the only real truth I found was that the bullets made today are superior to those of say 30 years ago and I also noticed the old saw about bullets being right up to the rifling are more accurate ............................... , maybe on some rifles but not in others .................................. it's one of those things in which your particular rifle will let you know. I would suggest the writer tries shooting a swedish Mauser but using 100 Grn or 120 grn bullets and then insisit that the bullet has to virtually kiss the rifling No mention of seasoned bores? I see a lot of half truths and hot air but no doubt they get paid for their insights Sheesh

[Rocky Raab]

There's probably a bit of truth to both sides of the "belt" issue.

The superior system for headspace and extraction in doubles and singles is clearly the rim. But when they went to a rimless round, they had trouble with both headspace and extraction (actually the problems were with consistent manufacturing of ammo and chambers re headspace, and in extractor design with extraction). The change from England's climate to Africa's didn't help, either.

So they created a "rim" on a rimless round - and called it a belt.

Here in the good old USA, anything bigger is better, and so for decades, if it didn't have "Magnum" in its name, it didn't sell. And if it didn't have a belt, it wasn't a magnum. So they designed belts onto everything, it seemed.

In fact, with the standards of today's machining (both chambers and ammo), the belt is worthless or even less than worthless. It makes feeding a challenge, makes resizing a chore, and is hell on case life.

Writers? Heck we have opinions, too. We spout 'em to anyone who'll listen. It's just that when we spout a dumb one, it's right there in print for folks to laugh at for years. (Kinda counters that small and long-ago spent check.)

[Lone Star]

The .300 and .375 H&H Magnums were not designed for break open actions, but for bolt actions. Special rimmed case variants were designed and used for the former weaker actions. The belt supplied the required positive headspacing in bolt guns.

American manufacturers no longer use a belt on magnum cases - it is indeed superflous. Note the plethora of recent beltless magnums like the WSMs, WSSM, RUMs, ad nauseum.

The author does not state that anealing is not needed. He even recommends an alternate method to avoid oversoftening the case. Where did the poster find this comment?

Why does the author have to plug Lee products? Perhaps he has little experience with them. Is the article any less valuable because the author didn't plug the poster's favorite brands?

I found the article a very good introduction to accuracy reloading for the intermediate reloader. It does not state that you have to do benchrest case preparation to get good accuracy. He's right of course, you don't.

Rocky hit the nail on the head about an author's opinions. I was never shy in writing about my opinions, and I've sometimes had to defend them decades after they were published. What Rocky did not say was that in some instances the magazine editor will change what the writer submitted to suit his own opinions. Then the writer has to live with the editor's words which are forever believed to be his own......

[Rocky Raab]

Boy is that ever true. I've had editors change what they thought were typos (but were NOT) and changed the whole slant of my article. Then I've have to answer all the "Hey, you dumbnut..." letters for YEARS after that.

But I didn't bring it up, because it would have sounded a bit like whining or snivelling in a post where another writer is somewhat taken to task.

BTW, we've all read posts right here where some people slam any and all Lee products. Others defend them. If BOTH camps wrote articles, they both get criticized, too!

This is fun stuff, boys and girls. Even the disagreements are fun. Honest.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Despite that the Rimless Belted Nitro Express cartridges were designed with the Mauser Bolt action in mind, at that time the Farquerson, swinburn Martini and the Soper single shot rifles were popular and highly thought of, however thay did not extract the rimless cases very well so the belt helped. Also the reason for the long large capacity cases was to allow enough room for the strands of Cordite powder but keep pressures within tolerable limits in the tropical heat of the Colonies.

The belt I believe also helped with strengthening the case at it's weakest point as I think you will find during development that they suffered case failures at the junction of te case web and wall. The belt making this point thicker helped stop this problem.

As for the new super dooper magnums I cannot comment as I have not knowledge of them and seriously doubt I will ever have much if any knowledge of them having no need for, nor interest in them what so ever

Hmm I never said that the author has to plug the Lee products nor did I say that he should not plug Blount products

Out of interest one of the reasons I like Lee products is that Lee Precision will deal direct with us Folks from outside the US when a lot of others will not due to the stupidity of the Patriot Act At least Lee are willing to get the required export permit whilst others cannot be bothered. Just how restricting the sale of sporting reloading products, stocks and even semi-finished or inletted stocks is going to reduce the terrorist threat is beyond my comprehension

Reloading is I suppose the closest thing to black magic in the way it works, after all the same recipe and seating depth of bullets do not work out the same in different rifles.

Which reminds me I must see about trying the set up an account at Midway .

[hofts]

well.........i think it is still a good article over all.......d-m it!