If Pearl Harbor happened nowdays...

[TheeBadOne]

[PJgunner]

The sad part about that picture are the first two signs. I don't think we have the industrial complex that allowed us to do what we did in WW-2. Corporate greed has potentially destroyed this country with their outsourcing of our industial capacity.
Most good made in China today are being made my American corporations who have outsource to the country that just may be the one to do the next Pearl Harbor style sneak attack.
Of course, the government isn't going to do anything about it. After all, we have the best government big business can buy.
Paul B.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, PJ, we've been over this ground before. You have your views - and I respect them.

But I believe that it's the unions that bleed companies dry with their demands for more wages, more benefits, more this, more that, but less work. That's what has forced companies to find lower production costs, or else go out of business altogether.

If China can sell it cheaper, what's the difference between them and all of us who go to Mart-Mart instead of a Mom and Pop - because the big box has it cheaper?

But at least we can still disagree and share a brew, huh?

[skeet]

And another thing about the unions.. The unions support the liberal members of Congress and the Senate and they were the ones who proposed and pushed NAFTA. The unions supported the same politicians who voted to get rid of American jobs. Don't get that one. Unions were definitely needed at one time but as Rocky said they kind of overstepped the bounds of necessity and as most things people get into..they got carried away with their importance.. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back to the center again and we can have a good balance of unionism and capitalism....and more jobs for Americans.

[fabsroman]

I was talking with my wedding photographer the other day and he happened to work for Giant, a grocery store in several states around here, as a cashier. He told me that he was getting paid $30 an hour and $45 on holidays to work as a cashier back in 1987 when the union actually had power. If I had known that back in 1987, I wouldn't have gone to college in 1989 and worked at a hot dog stand for $5.00 an hour. I would have become a cashier for Giant. Utterly amazing to think that a cashier could make that much money back then.

The USA has many things wrong with it, but I still think we could industrialize if we needed too. Hopefully, it would be in time.

Where is most of our military stuff made? I would guess right here in the USA, but I have no exact idea.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by fabsroman
I was talking with my wedding photographer the other day and he happened to work for Giant, a grocery store in several states around here, as a cashier. He told me that he was getting paid $30 an hour and $45 on holidays to work as a cashier back in 1987 when the union actually had power. If I had known that back in 1987, I wouldn't have gone to college in 1989 and worked at a hot dog stand for $5.00 an hour. I would have become a cashier for Giant. Utterly amazing to think that a cashier could make that much money back then.

The USA has many things wrong with it, but I still think we could industrialize if we needed too. Hopefully, it would be in time.

Where is most of our military stuff made? I would guess right here in the USA, but I have no exact idea.

fabs

for some reason my bs meter is pegging out on that wage quote. no doubt we could industrialize again if we had to. look at all the empty factory space we have sitting around. my hometown is a mere shell of what it used to be. general motors is all but gone. gm had three major divisions there when i was young now all thats left is one delco plant with about 1/3 the workers and a delphi plant.

to my way of thinking what has really killed american factory production is the epa. why should a company spend million upon million to cut emisssions when they can ship the work off to some foreign country and not have to worry about it? but we may get caught up in that before long with the kyoto accord.

in some ways the unions have outlived their usefulness. especially the safety issues they fought so hard for. i think back in the 30', 40's and 50's they were important and did a fair to middlin job for the workers. of course i can't speak from experience about this subject presently. i'm like will rogers, "all i know is what i read in the papers".

when i was in the military equipment was contracted out and bids submitted on what was bought and had to meet strict production codes on quality and quantity. yes i remember the $600 toilet seats. every once in awhile some things did slip through the cracks. no pun intended. i could tell you some real horror stories about government procuremet. talk about a boondoggle. goat rope extraordinaire.

as for the resolve of the typical american one only has to go back to the days of "rosie the riveter". now talk about somebody that got the royal purple shaft ribbon with a barbed wire cluster, those ladies were it, they worked for a lot less than the guys got.

some other time we will star on the education issue. i might be able to cover that one in a hundred pages or so.

well got to get up early to go pheasant hunting in the morning and it's 0315 already. see ya later.