.410 Brass shotshell reloading?

[PlinkAddict]

Wow, can't believe it's been so long since I was in here.

After searching the archives, I still have questions on this topic: What would I need to reload .410 brass hulls with small pistol (I think) primer pockets in regards to dies, wads, other necessities?

I have 296 and 'LilGun, most handgun dies, and all the usual stuff. Been loading metallic for 30 years, absolutely no shotgun experience (ergo the desire to load the brass hulls).

I just picked up a 9410 reasonable and would like to roll my own for it. Don't want to buy a dedicated reloader for the 410 since I already have the metallic equipment.

Thanks for anything!!

Plink

PS: I have been using Rocky's 22 Hornet recommendations for about 2 years now with Lilgun. Very pleased with the results - I can now shoot groups that are not shameful.

[Rocky Raab]

Oh boy. Well, at least you didn't ask an easy one, LOL!

Brass shotshells are for the most part a real excercise in frustration. First, few if any of the wads sold will work. Why? Because brass shotshells are much thinner than plastic or paper-walled ones. So wads made for the usual kind will be too small for brass.

So you'd have to find a source of .42 or .43 wads. Lotsa luck. (As an example, 12-ga brass shells take 11 gauge wads.)

I have a suspicion that load data would be off, too. I'm not sure how much, or if it would be high or low, but I'd bet it varies from plastic shell data. The drastic change in primers alone would make that a certainty.

Finally, I've never even SEEN a brass .410. Where in the dickens did you get some?

[skeet]

As Rocky said they are very hard to find stuff for. The Brass Shells are available from CBC...Think you can buy them at Cabela's. I do have a few. I made my own wads in years past for the 410 cases I have. Mine also use small pistol primers. I used a .44 wad cutting punch and cut them from (if I remember correctly) either 36 ga or 28 ga cork wads. But you can cut them from any size wad. You just have to find the right wad column height...not too hard as you can put an overshot wad anywhere the load comes to up to a point. In my old brass cases I could use 24 ga wads in my 28 ga. and some16 wads in the 20's. As Rocky said the 12 required at least an 11 bore wad.

Rocky...as an aside in the distant past I even reloaded primers. Couldn't get shotshell but had some large(I think) pistol primers. Knocked the old primer out and inserted a new L pistol. Had to leave the anvil from the shotshell primer in place though. An old reloader from pre war times told me what to do. Worked fine but don't know the pressure things. Paper shells lasted just as long and shot fine. It was a bit tedious...but it allowed me to shoot when I couldn't get what I needed

[Paul5388]

Obviously, there were brass shotshells before there were paper or plastic, so they certainly are reloadable.

Brass 12 gauge shells were used in trench guns during WWI, because paper would swell too big for the chamber when it got wet and was useless.

Most I have heard of lately are using Magtech brass from Midway at about $12/box of 25.

They don't resize, just punch out the old primer and insert the new one.

.410 wads are trickier, as has already been noted. I was planning on cutting cardboard wads with a piece of old .45-70 brass, to use under a "power piston". Then I was going to use another wad as an over wad, glued in place with Elmer's glue or Duco (if I think I need a waterproof glue). I suppose a .45-70 seating/crimpimg die would roll the top a little for easier feeding.

Considering the price of factory loads, it shouldn't take too long to pay for the brass!

Oh, shot, Wal Mart has Win Super Speed 12 gauge for about $3/box and the shot out of those could be used a lot cheaper than a bag of shot would be. That's why I quit reloading shotshells, I can buy them as cheap as I can load 'em!

The Super Speeds can be reloaded with two .45 cal round balls and filled around, as a spacer, with the excess shot. At 25 yards they will print about 2" apart, if you stack the two balls on top of each other. You have to remember they are only field loads, but should do well in a "house" gun..

[PlinkAddict]

Thanks for all the info. I managed to find the equivalent to the old LeeLoader at

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/

Looks like they also sell cartrtidges that would last me a lifetime.

My dealer says if I call RCBS they will make dies for me. I can't believe that would be necessary, but I'll do some further checking.

http://www.circlefly.com/ has wads, if I can't make them.

I expect to get some factory rounds for Christmas maybe. Will save the hulls from them too, just in case. If nothing else, I have something to occupy my brain over the Christmas season.

Cheeres,

[Rrusse11]

Plink et al.,
Here's what I do for 410.
444 Marlin brass,LR primer, standard 410 plastic shotcup, the Claybuster #CB 1050-41A is the cheapest.
Currently throwing 16gr of Alliant 410 into a case, insert shotcup with a pencil, fill to rim with shot of ur choice, I'm using #9 or #8 1/2. 7/16" cardboard wad cut with a cheapo chinese wadcutter set.
Using the powder thru expander die on my Lee 444 Marlin die set, adjust to press corrugated cardboard wad ~.1" below rim.
Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die which rolls the edge of the case enough to contain the slightly oversize overshot cardboard wad.
Fire away!
Cases don't need resizing, and the 444 Marlin is a tad undersized, but expands up to fit the chamber over a half dozen fireings or so. I've only ever partially resized if they start getting a touch tight in chambering.
I decap with a manual pin and base set up, reprime with the Lee handheld prime unit.
Works in 3 different 410 shotguns I've got.

I did get some of the Magtech brass, and have used the same general technique to reload same, a lil more shot/powder capacity than the 444 case. The Lee FCD needs a spacer to get the crimp in the right place, but that's no more than a fat washer on the shell holder so that the collet squeezes the 410 case mouth.

Cheers,
R*2

[Rocky Raab]

Welcome to HuntChat, RRusse! I'm honored that you made your first post (and such a good one!) here in this forum.

Allow me to return the favor...

You can save all the trouble with the crimp die - and the inevitable cracked case mouths - by simply running a tiny bead of hot glue around the edge of the over-shot wad after it's in place.

That's how I assemble my 45 Colt shot loads, and even multiple shots don't dislodge the wad. It also waterproofs the load!

[Rrusse11]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Welcome to HuntChat, RRusse! I'm honored that you made your first post (and such a good one!) here in this forum.

Allow me to return the favor...

You can save all the trouble with the crimp die - and the inevitable cracked case mouths - by simply running a tiny bead of hot glue around the edge of the over-shot wad after it's in place.

That's how I assemble my 45 Colt shot loads, and even multiple shots don't dislodge the wad. It also waterproofs the load!

Rocky,
Thanks for the kudos. I take the point on glue, but with my Lee turret press, and the FCD die set, it literally takes seconds to apply a light crimp. No problem with case cracking yet, I'll anneal if it looks like happenin'. I've put well over a 1000 rounds of 410 downrange in the last coupla' months, and have never had a problem with the straight cardboard. They go into a 50rd plastic box and it's off to the range.
Haven't tried the rounds in a pump or lever action, I'm an o/u fan, but I figure the rounded end of the case would help feeding.
Lol, and I don't have a hot glue gun. The mess and seperate operation of dabs of glue would be too time consuming for my purposes, IMHO.
I load up a hunnert or so in ~ an hour I'd guess.
I've only recently taken up with trap and claybirds,,,,, I'm finding that you put a LOT of rounds downrange, and get a LOT of shooting in. {:o).
Cheers,
R*2
Ps. Is Ken Howell still working on his book? I stumbled across a copy of "Cartridges" on Ebay, and I'll buy that and his rumoured work on the Rifle if they're available from him.

[PlinkAddict]

Hey R*2,

Great info! A couple questions: Does the 444 shellholder fit the Magtech 410 brass? Do you have to use an expander in a crimped case after firing to reform the mouth big enough to accept the new wad?

I use Lee crimp dies on everything. I expect 44 Mag would not work for crimping (with a long spacer)? Without looking it up, I'm guessing the 44 Mag would be too small diameter.

The answer I suppose would be to get the 444 set from Lee, yes?

Thanks all for the good help so far.

[Rocky Raab]

R2, Ken returned my check for his new book, saying that he was having difficulties getting it out. His health isn't great and he recently moved to another state, so I can understand the difficulties.

He says he'll get it done someday, though.

It will be great if he does. He's a real expert. But I'm not going to hold my breath. Self-publishing is a lot of work.

I'll probably beat him to press with my "Reloading 101" book. Mine isn't nearly the in-depth scientific study that Ken's will be. Mine is more of a Reloading for Dummies book (although I can't seem to get the "X For Dummies" people interested in it.) I'll likely publish it myself, just like the novel.

On the .410/.444 issue: your system makes sense for you. Stick with it. For someone doing them more on a one-at-a-time basis, the glue trick is great. FWIW, I use an old Lee Loader to create dinky little shot rounds for my .45 Colt. They end up being cylinder length, or 1.75" and hold about a third of an ounce of shot. I use trimmed down Federal wads, #9 shot and very small powder charges in trimmed Remington cases. Great fun in a revolver.