.300 win mag reloading

[steve bailey]

Has anyone reloaded with berger VLD bullets. I know they are a longer bullet and I'm trying to find how long the total bullet should be. Does it affect ballistics if it is too far in or out?

[billy ahring]

Your .300 win mag has a maximum OAL (overall length) cartridge length that the chamber will accept. This does not vary from bullet to bullet. If the Berger is longer than most others then that simply means that more bullet will be seated into the case. If your finished bullet exceeds the maximum OAL that your gun allows you will simply not be able to close the bolt on it. There are many opinions as to whether to seat all the way up against the rifling lands or to give the bullet a bit of a jump. One rifle will not react the same as the next as to seating depth. That where load testing comes in. Just one of the many variables that we as reloaders are always taking into account while trying to find that perfect performing load for our rifle. Good luck !!

Billy

[Rocky Raab]

Welcome to HuntChat, Steve.

That's good advice. Seat those bullets the the published maximum OAL. But also make sure that you check them in your rifle's magazine (if you plan to load more then one at a time) and through the action. It's possible that maximum OAL rounds might not fit the magazine OR be able to eject a loaded round after it's been chambered.

You also need to be sure that the parallel sides of the bullet are in the case neck. Or, that the curved part at the front of those VERY long bullets does not leave a gap between the bullet and the case when seated. That's a major problem with VLDs: they have to be seated so far out of the case that they exceed published OAL. Then they have to be single-loaded and have to be fired once chambered unless you remove the bolt to unload!

You're shooting very long range targets, right? These aren't big game or hunting bullets at all.

[JT7771]

Hey Man,

To be honest with you, I've shot a 300 Mag once, not a bad round. Anyway, to the point. When I was working up a recipe for my 30-06, I read somewhere that if the most accurate rounds that bench rest shooters can use are the ones where the bullet is seated approximately 5 thousanths of an inch from the begining of the lands. What I suggest is seating a bullet (dummy bullet with no powder or primer) extra long, try to chamber it in your rifle, if it doesn't work, give the die a half a turn then seat the bullet a little deeper. keep repeating this process until the round seats in the chamber and you can close the bolt easily. Over all length in reloading books are "a happy medium", meaning that because most rifles are mass produced. Thus by using the process that I gave you, you can find the COL for your respective rifle. Good luck and hope that this helps.

Jerry

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Hmm I have heard this nonsense about being 0.005" off the lands too .

Have you ever seriously checked through a box of bullets?

The position of the actual ogive can and often will vary by as much as 0.25" so how can you seat to only 0.005"?

Also if you load for enough differetn rifles you will find the errors in the statement I found this out whilst loading some Hornady 139 grn 7mm bullets for a hunting trip. I brought a box of their 139 Flat pointed bullets and their Spire points. Using the same load i.e powder charge, case and primer and seating both bullets out a little from the cannulure to reduce the jump to teh thraot as the "experts" recommend I found the the flat ppinted bullets shot nice tight groups but the spire points produced a spread of about 1 3/4"

The problem with the flat point bullets is that thet hang up on the left side of the chamber mouth when trying to feed from the mag which is no good so I was left with only a few weeks in which to sort to spire point load out Tried varying the seating depth out more, reducing the charge, increasing the charge and nothing I tried grouped anywaer near like the FP bullets and none smaller than about 1 3/8" groups size. It was then that I tried seating the bullets base level with the juncture os the neck. the group tighten up some. Finally I ended up with the bullet seated about 1/16" out from the cannulure and a slightly increased powder charge from the FP bullet load. This combination shout right on 1 MOA but the bullet had losts of jump to reach the leade.

In my 6.5x55 spoerterised Swedish Mauser it likes Speer 120 grn falt based bullets, the jump on these is more like 1/4" and if I do my part groups of 1/2"-5/8" are fairly normal. I also have a bolt action rifle chambered in 30-30 win which loves 125-130 Grn spiters, again lots of jump to the leade and as of yet I have not ben able to get such good groups using 150 grn RN bullets which have less jump.

My personel experieince has been that there is NO hard and fast rule about jump distance, every rifle is different and what the benchrest crowd is different because their rifles are totally different wiht minimum chambers and tight necks whihc require carefully matched cases with turned necks to minimum clearances.

A guy at the gun club is trying to improve his groups in his pest control rifle, it's a .223 chambered rifle and he has finnaly gotten around to turning the necks nd his groups hae opened up a little some one has told him the barrel is shot out for some reason he asked me what I thought was wrong so after getting him to describe his relaoding process which it seems has maily been adopted from what he has read on the benchrest way. I asked about his rifle, it has a normal factory barrel and chamber so by turning the necks he has increased the clearence and made the cartridge alignment in the chamber worse .......... not better. he then tried loading a few cases that had not been turned and his group size improved again It was hard work explaining to him that if he wanted to use all the bench rest techniques then he would have to have a tight neck chamber and also get a benchrest seating die or micrometer match seating die to keep the jump exactly the same for each round which would need to be checked with a guage which measures on the ogive and not the point to elimnate any varibles from the manufacturing proccess of the bullets.

Sometime we get blinded by it all

[L. Cooper]

Never used VLD's but used a .300Win a lot.

In my rifle the OAL that just touches the lands is always too long to function properly through the magazine. I have hunting loads that are actually longer than the maximum OAL in the manuals, but which testing proves function well through the magazine, and I have my super-accurate-tack-driving-money-winning loads that I must single load if I am at the range playing games.

I physically measure the maximum OAL for each bullet I use for the specific rifle I have, and then make adjustments to get the relief from the lands that I need for reliable functioning and/or best accuracy.

I know I'm ignoring the specs in the manuals, but I believe I'm doing it safely. The industry specifications are there to make any round that conforms to spec. function properly in any gun that conforms. The main advantage of reloading is that you can make specific rounds conform to your specific guns.

[JT7771]

"To Each His Own" I'm sure that there are other ideas that work well for others, the tip that I gave you has worked for me in my run of the mill rifle. I do not let the bullet actually touch the lands, as I said there is a small gap. I have no problem with the rounds fitting in the box magazine, although I can easily see how this would pose a problem in magazine fed rifles such as semi-auto rifle for example. I have a bolt rifle and have had no problem with feeding. As I said earlier, you can try it and it may work for you, I assure you that it is NOT nonsense. I can't remember where I read the tip but it was likely a shooting mag article likely by Layne Simpson (sp) as I enjoy reading his articles and tips. Take care and good luck..

Jerry

[Rocky Raab]

Actually, you are all correct.

The truth is that every rifle is an individual machine. One may be throated longer, the next may have a bit more wear, the next might be a bit tighter in the neck, and so on.

Then too, benchrest guys use handmade bullets that are likely to be more uniform than mass-produced ones. So their seating techniques might achieve smaller error than ours. They also do not have to worry about magazine feeding like we hunters do.

I like to start testing with bullets seated to the "book" OAL, knowing that slightly different tips on the bullets will result in slightly inconsistent results. I'll settle on a promising powder/primer combination first, then tweak the seating until groups are as good as I can get them. If they feed through the magazine at that length, I'm good to go.

I realize that - using a factory barrel and regular brass, dies and bullets - I am NEVER going to get benchrest accuracy. Anything even close to an inch (for a big-game cartridge) is more than enough accuracy. Even two-inch groups at 100 yards are perfectly fine for deer and larger animals shot under 300 yards away.

Striving for better than that is pure obsessiveness with factory-grade components and rifles.

Really.

[skb2706]

Brithunter said

"The position of the actual ogive can and often will vary by as much as 0.25" so how can you seat to only 0.005"? "

Wow now those are some "seconds"..........sure they are even the same caliber ?

I do it pretty much the same way that 7771 does it til I work down to about .015" off lands if 'for the intended purpose they function in my gun I go with that ....most often it the most accurate in my .300 WM.

[Rocky Raab]

I think I've described this before, but here's how I handle seating depth:

First, I find the best primer/powder/charge load.

Next, I fiddle with the seating depth until I get the accuracy (and feeding reliability) I want.

Now, here's the "Rocky Method"...

First, using a loaded round that's at the most accurate length, I scribe a line around the bullet at approximately the bore diameter. For a cartridge using .308" bulets, that's about .300". To make the scribe line, I'll set my steel calipers to .300" and lock the jaws. Carefully twist the bullet between the jaws, making sure the jaws are perpendicular to the cartridge axis. That will leave a visible scribe line like this...

[Rocky Raab]

Now, vary carefully measure the distance from the cartridge base to that line.

Let's say (for example) that it's a .308 Win round, and the base-line distance is 2.235".

For loads with other bullets (and different ogive curves, nose shapes, etc) you first scribe a new unseated bullet with an identical scribe line - jaws again at exactly .300".

Now seat that new bullet so that the base-line distance is again 2.235" and you will achieved the exact same bullet-to-lands distance WITHOUT TESTING.

This works without regard to ogive, nose shape, etc. It automatically seats the bullet where your rifle likes it for best accuracy.

Unless the new bullet is much more pointed, it should also feed through your magazine. That's why I usually do my baseline testing with a plastic-tipped bullet. If that one feeds, every other bullet should feed, too.

Comments?

[Drew_CarreyAB]

See you guys, that's why we keep Rocky around.......I never would have thought of doing it his way, it does make alot of sense. I use the old seat a bullet out a little far then chamber it and work the die back and forth to get the depth I want. Rocky, you need to write a book on this kinda stuff "The Tricks of The Trade" by Rocky Raab. I'd pay for something like that, how bout the rest of you guys?? (I'm sorry if this post sounds sarcastic, but I hope it don't come across as such)

[Evan03]

i use the rifles chamber to seat my base line bullet. this seats it to lands with nose sticking way in there. i then pull the dumby rd from the chamber that just seated the bullet. drop it in the shell holder and raise the rame to full stroke. i then screw the seater die down on the dumby rd untill i feel it contact the bullet. this is contacting on the Ogive.

ounce i have the die set here i then lower the ram and turn the seater die down about a half turn. then raise the ram back up to full stroke. this seats the bullet alittle further and off the lands just a hair.

thats my method. its seemed to work so far in my rifles. all are seated this way.

my 3006 is seated long in my ruger. im scrapn nose and tail inside the magwell. 165 nosler balistic tips are long.


ps.

quick what cartridge does rock have pictured, blue tips are 257 cal.

[Drew_CarreyAB]

It could be the new MRX(I think) Barnes bullet LOL....So there *G*

[Mike Moss]

Welcome to the forum.

The 300 WM has a very short neck so unless your chamber is unusual you may have a problem holding that bullet.

Overall the 300 WM is the VW Beetle of rifle cartridges what with its harder to handload belt design and too short magazine and neck.

See the Nosler manual for the caution on the 300 WM. It's a troublesome cartridge.