With one hand tied behind our backs

[Aim to maim]

The story below is so outlandish that if I'd seen it on a web forum without attribution, I would have dismissed it as a right-wing urban myth. However, I checked the Washington Times site and sure enough, there it was in the January 20th edition in a Pentagon affairs column called "Inside the Ring" The actual source was understandably not named, but it appears likely that the story is authentic.

In this day and age, I'm not at all surprised that some idiot would raise such an issue, but I'm appalled that out military has deteriorated to such an extent that rear-echelon armchair quarterbacks would have such inordinate power. Even though the situation has been resolved, it appears that at least one brave warrior sacrificed his career to make things right.

I truly fear for the safety of the Republic.


From today's Washington Times:
Sniper rounds

An Army judge advocate general (JAG) temporarily banned Army and Marine Corps snipers from using a highly accurate open-tip bullet. The JAG, we are told, mistakenly thought the open-tip round was the same as hollow-point ammunition, which is banned. The original open-tip was known as Sierra MatchKing and broke all records for accuracy in the past 30 years. The difference between the open-tip and the hollow point is that the open tip is a design feature that improves accuracy while the hollow point is designed for increasing damage when it hits a target.

About 10 days ago, the Army JAG in Iraq ordered all snipers to stop using the open-tip 175-grain M118LR bullet, claiming, falsely, it was prohibited. Instead of the open-tip, snipers were forced to take M-60 machine gun rounds out of belts and use them instead.

The order upset quite a few people here and in Iraq who said the JAG ignored the basic principle of every military lawyer that there is a presumption of legality for all issued weapons or ammunition that are made at the military service level at the time they are acquired.

"She forced snipers to use less accurate ammunition, thereby placing U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians at greater risk," a Pentagon official said of the JAG, who was not identified by name. "And she incorrectly issued an order. JAGs may advise a commander, but they cannot issue orders."

After Army lawyers were finally alerted to the JAG's action, the order was lifted and the JAG was notified that the open tip was perfectly legal for use by snipers. However, the reversal was followed by the Army officials' taking retaliation against a sniper who blew the whistle on the bogus order. The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG.

[Classicvette63]

Wouldn't matter, not to me anyway. If my life is on the line, I'll use whatever equipment I darn well please.

And besides, the guys head is going to look like a pan of spilt lasagna, does it really matter to him which bullet is used?

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by Classicvette63
Wouldn't matter, not to me anyway. If my life is on the line, I'll use whatever equipment I darn well please.

And besides, the guys head is going to look like a pan of spilt lasagna, does it really matter to him which bullet is used?

While I feel the same way, The truth of the matter is that Military personnel can get in big trouble for disobeying Orders or "Rules" handed down from "On high".
Our guys can't just pop into the local gun shop and pick up a box or two of custom ammo, they have to use what is provided for them.

All that being said, The whole dispute with the "Hollow point" bullet(s) is stupid. These bullets are not hollow for expansion, but for a better drag coefficient. Ignorant REMF'ers!

Tall Shadow

[fabsroman]

So, you meant to tell me that these snipers don't load their own rounds? How can they get the gun to be that accurate at 1,000+ yards if they are using factory ammo with the same OAL?

As far as the JAG is concerned, my parents taught that if I cannot say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all. So, I have absolutely nothing to say.

[WyoShooter]

Army Sniper ammo is manufactured at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence Missouri. It is very reliable and very accurate. They have strict tolerances for sniper ammo. It is not your average factory ammo.

The M-118 Special Ball in 7.62 is the current sniping round. It fires a 173 gr. FMJ-BT at 2550fps.
Federal also makes match ammo that is suitable for sniping using a 175 gr. Sierra Match King round.
The military is transitioning to M-118LR Special Ball which fires a 175 gr. Sierra Match King like the Federal Match ammo but fires it 20 fps slower at 2580fps.

The Army says maximum effective range for the M-118 round is 800 meters for reliable hits but shots have been taken beyond that of course.