foreign ammo

[gdaddybill]

Why don't the gun writers ever mention the performance of bullets by makers like Lapua, Norma, RWS, Wolf, etc. I realize some of this stuff is not commonly available but most of it isn't that hard to get and surely someone has some personal experiences with these bullets in the field or in a bullet box. Are the US ammo companies so powerful that the writers are afraid to even mention the stuff.

[BILLY D.]

bill

welcome aboard the forum.

competition may have a small part in what scribes report but i think the main reason is lack of interest by american sportsmen and women.

good golly miss moly, seems like every tuesday there is another "new" bullet or powder on the market. we are swamped with new and improved stuff to try out. and for some folks money and time to invest are a big bargaining chip.

i for one have gotten to the point in life when i find something that performs well i stick with it. reason being i have an abundance of firearms and i'm tired of running all these tests when i could be hunting or shooting instead. if you only have a few rifles to work with it's great, but i have most calibers from 17 to 458 win mag in my inventory. it gets to be a lot to maintain and load for. but i'm not complaining. i love my firearms.

i do manage to keep the lights burning at vihtavouri, nosler and a few other companies.

one bullet that does interest me is the oryx. haven't tried any yet. someday.

back to the original question. the gun writers just don't report on these topics because of lack of interest and like i said competition may have some part in it but i don't think it is the leading cause. why report on something that is going to have a small fan base.

again, welcome to the forum.

best wishes.

[Jack]

I think you'd see more articles about RWS or Norma ammo if it was more available. You don't find that stuff at any of the big box stores, for sure, and not even widely distributed among gun shops.
If someone's writing an article, they want lots of people to be interested enough to read the article. A large number of shooters have no interest in some of the less common ammo brands.

[Tater]

Speaking from personal experience, Wolf and Norma ain't worth the cardboard box they come in. Wolf comes in 2 extremes: either it has barely enough energy to clear my barrel or it's loaded so hot I can feel unburnt powder hitting me in the face. Norma just wasn't accurate or consistent in the least. Don't know if this helps or not, just my 2 cents.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

The problem is that the gun magazines have to protect their advertisers which is why you never see a bad report on a product. Telling the truth is not in the equation, selling more advertyising is big time .

As for Tater's problem with Norma, I must say that I am slightly surprised as Norma normally performs quite well in most of the rifles I ahve tried it in. OK it's not always MOA but it's certainly hunting accuracy. But then I cannot get what I would consider decent accuracy out of Winchester 30-30 150 Grn ammo from my rifle yet handloads make tiny almost one hole groups. It seems that the Winchester formular just is not compatable with my rifle and only gives 2 1/2- 3 1/2" groups

Another thing with a lot of European ammo is that they use a sintered iron jacket heavily gilding metal plated. The bullets are thus magnetic and lots of Americans relate this to being a bad thing without even trying it, then of course there are the range Nazis with their magnets claiming it to be "Armour piecing" or a fire hazard .

Next we come up against the good old :-

" if it's not made here syndrome"

So take you pick as to why Norma, RWS, Sellior & Belliot, Sako, Hirtenberg and Lapua etc are not more activly advertised through reports and more widly available.

[Rocky Raab]

First, allow me to second the warm welcome, gdaddybill. I think you'll like it here.

As a working gun writer, here's my take:

I'm freelance, so I don't get "assignments" to review products. I have to find a subject that I think will interest an editor - that's the audience I sell to, and if I don't sell to him, I don't sell at all.

If I wrote a piece about Lapua bullets, Vectan powder and RWS primers, an editor would correctly say, "What interest would American reloaders have in this stuff? It's hardly available at all here." And he would reject it - again, quite correctly.

As to another point, that of coddling advertisers, that is partially true. But only partially. I've called some products junk, and had it printed without change. But more often, there simply isn't much "bad" to say about today's products. They're all pretty damned good. I'll grant you that not every product is Olympic-grade - but their prices reflect that.

Look at BSA scopes, for example. They're cheap. Really cheap. They also tend to break easily, go out of adjustment, have less than stellar optics and finish. On the other hand, how many guys would spend three grand to put a Schmidt and Bender highest grade scope on a Remington 710? Nor do many reloaders buy $3 each African-grade imported bullets for tin can plinking.

The truth is very simple: if you never see an ABC brand gizmo mentioned in a magazine article, there's a reason. It might be junk and the magazine sees no point in giving it placement (or find itself sued!), it might be simply unavailable to the majority of shooters, or there's simply so much new stuff out there that ABC's gizmo simply never gets written about.

[GoodOlBoy]

Wolf has two calibers they provide (in my experience) good reliable consistant rounds in. 7.62x39mm and 45acp. I had problems with wolf 22s, and I have not used any of their other ammo.

Sellier and Bellot are much the same. They make great 12 guage 00 buck. And decent 45s.

I, however, agree with Rocky about the rest.

GoodOlBoy

[Dom]

And another thing -- don't know if it's just coincidence or my limited experience, but . . .

- seems to me that the European ammo just shoots a whole lot better in European rifles, and the American ammo shoots better than most others in American rifles.

Don't know if that's the way it's loaded for OAL or what . . .

Like I said tho, my experience is limited because I shoot 99% reloaded ammo. And, I think RWS and Norma brass is heartier brass than Rem/WW -- thicker too, jmh obversations, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[PJgunner]

I could be snide and say the gun writers don't get them for free.
Seriously though, my experience with Norma ammo is long but thin. I shot a lot of 6.5x54 M/S before the rifles were stolen. Mixed reviews there. The rifles had very long throats for the 160 gr. bullet and all that ever seemed to be availavle was 140 gr. ammo. However, handloads with either Hornady or Norma (when I could get them) componenets.were very accurate. Norma's 7x57 150 gr. ammo shot decently in my rifles , but I never felt that they delivered the advertised velocity. I gather that they load it to full power for the European market and download it to SAAMI specs for sale here. If I could find some I'd run them over the chronograph. Accuracy was in the 1.0-1.25" range in two rifles.
About two years ago, I got a smokin' deal one a Ruger #1B in .257 Roberts. $400. Along with the rifle came six boxes of Norma brand .257 Roberts ammo with 100 gr. bullets. The rifle also had a3x9X Leuopld Vari-X II mounted on it. The fellow said the rifle was sighted in for the Norma ammo. I went to the range to check the sights and put five shots into .25". I shot the breeze with a few of the people shooting as we all waited for our rifles to cool down a bit. Takes a while in a Southern Arizona summer. I then fired another five round group that was .30". I'd have to say, based on that small amount of use that Norma ammo was fairly good for accuracy, at least in that rifle. Needless to say, I'm hoarding that stuff. I may try a five shot group from a new Winchester model 70 Featherweight I picked up a while back that seems to want to shoot. I just might run them over the chronograph as well. It's good stuff.
Paul B.