270 wsm or 280 ackley

hofts · #1 03-10-2006, 04:56 PM

okay, these are your only two choices. again, these are your only two choices. which one and why.? hunting antelope thru mule deer. with this gun, no elk hunts or larger. yes you are a reloader as well. oh yeah, your only other two choices are 120 gr and 140 gr bullets.

give me your thoughts. ?!!! thanks,,,just curious.

Evan03 · #2 03-10-2006, 08:20 PM

id push 140s through the wsm between 3100-3200 and never look back.

id never load 120s in either caliber. just not worth it.

i like the 280 but ive had some exsperince with the 270wsm. it likes 140gr bullets it plenty fast and acurate ounce get the right powder bullet combo for your rifle.

i will say one thing. if i had neither the 270wsm or the 280 id get the 3006.

but i do happen to have the 270 and 3006 and have had 270wsm. to me with the rifles i have the wsm fits in better.

you say antelope through mule deer. the way i see it if you hunt these your bound to hunt elk or larger sometime in the futer were 3006 will shine.

since your a reloder you can push 125gr bullets out there pretty good for deer or just load 150gr plastic tipped bullets at 3000. this would be plenty fast and flat for most any antelope hunt plus the 150s buck the wind alittle better.

but the idea of the 270wsm pushn 140 nos bts at long range with antelope in the sites is intrigueing, and one reason i keep getting more 270wsm reloading supplies even though i dont have the rifle.

its just a fun caliber to reload for and will shoot verywell and with the bullets avalable you can get it ready for that elk hunt your bounf to go on.

Evan

but then again the 3006 will do everything the 270win 280 and 270wsm will do plus some.

Mike Moss · #3 03-12-2006, 08:44 PM

Everyone should have owned a rifle with an improved chamber. Its good clean fun and costs a lot less than boats or Corvettes.

I have my fill of them and they are very hard to get rid of by the way.

But go and have your fun.

As for me I would pick the rifle first and I happed to like a rifle in 270 WSM so it was a win - win for me.

RUMLUVER · #4 03-13-2006, 07:55 PM

I would choose the .280 Imp because of the fact it shoots larger diameter bulluts and its easier on brass. I also would choose the 140gr bullets for their higher B.C.'s. To me the .280 Imp isn't giving anything up to the 270 wsm that a good rifle couldn't overcome.

Mike Moss · #5 03-13-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUMLUVER
I would choose the .280 Imp because of the fact it shoots larger diameter bulluts and its easier on brass. I also would choose the 140gr bullets for their higher B.C.'s. To me the .280 Imp isn't giving anything up to the 270 wsm that a good rifle couldn't overcome.

What evidence do you have on the case life of the 270 WSM or the 280 Improved?

hofts · #6 03-14-2006, 08:48 AM

i do know that the owner of jarret rifles makes a statement that 280 ackley brass does indeed last a long time, and it sounds like he knows quite a bit about the 280 ack cartridge.
he's been making and shooting them for a very long time

RUMLUVER · #7 03-14-2006, 06:50 PM

I have a friend that shoots a .280 Imp and he has gotten 20+ reloads out of his brass. My father owns and shoots a .270 WSM and gets about 1/2 that out of his brass. I also have a friend that shoots a .240 Cat Bird and he gats quite a few reloads from his brass many more than my dads .270 WSM brass.

Mike Moss · #8 03-15-2006, 10:47 PM

What do you mean by case life?

Whats failing or wearing out?

RUMLUVER · #9 03-16-2006, 02:35 PM

Very fine cracks in the case or shiny bands leaving small depressions on the inside of the case on the case near the base for the .270 WSM brass. Plus the .270 WSM cases needed more frequent trimming do to case neck stretching.

PJgunner · #10 03-17-2006, 06:02 PM

One of the things that gripes me is someone posts a set of parameters and asked which one. Then someone else jumps in with something not covered in the parameters. This must make me a bit of a pypocrite because here I'm going to do just that. Suggests some alternatives.

Me? I'd forget the WSM and the Acklet wildcat. For one, I don't think the .270 WSM will hand around and could go the way of the Dodo bird.

Second, the .280 Ackley is a wildcat round and if you decide to get rid of it, the monetary loss could be substantial.

No, if it were me, I'd look at the plain old .270 Win. or .280 Rem. and never look back. Both rounds can be handloaded to improve their ballisitics, especially the .280 which is underloaded due to it's use in semiautomatic rifles. Either cartridge, properly loaded will be more than adequate for the type of hunting specified. Ammo will be less expensive, especially in the .270. If the rifle choice were mine, in either cartridge I'd go with a tuned up Ruger #1B with 26" barrel for top velocity. I'll bet that with one of those rifles, I can come awfully close to the .270 WSM with the standard .270 Win. round and push a .280 Ackley as well. Currently, I have an FN Mauser in .270 Win. that will push a 150 gr. Nosler partition to 3000 FPS with absolutely no signs of pressure whatsoever. (It ain't for sale, sorry.) It will put 5 rounds under a nickel with the first three under a dime. The only bullet I have worked with in the .280 rem. is the 175 gr. Hornady Spire Point and it too is a tack driver. I haven't chronographed the load yet. Both the mentioned rifles have 24" barrels.
Anyway, that's the way I would go. FWIW, 150 gr. in the .270 Win. and possibly the 140 gr. in the .280 Rem., both using the standard cartridge.
Paul B.

hofts · #11 03-17-2006, 06:22 PM

yeah, i hear ya, i hear ya. thanks everyone.

Mike Moss · #12 03-17-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUMLUVER
Very fine cracks in the case or shiny bands leaving small depressions on the inside of the case on the case near the base for the .270 WSM brass. Plus the .270 WSM cases needed more frequent trimming do to case neck stretching.

Depressions inside the case near the base are insipiant head separations. They are caused by firing brass thats too small for the chamber. Nothing to do with a case like the 270 WSM in particular.

Frequent trimming is primarily caused by excessive working of the brass. Again nothing at all to do with the 270 WSM in particular.

Thus your observations are not relevant.

Mike Moss · #13 03-17-2006, 11:05 PM

PJ Gunner,

The 270 WSM is already more popular than the 280 Remington. Anything can go obsolete and the 280 is on the verge.

The 280 AI is not a wildcat but an improved cartridge and fires factory 280 Rem ammo!

Have you pressure tested your 3000 fps 150 gr 270 load? Whatever. The 270 WSM holds more powder than the 270 Win and will launch bullets about 150 fps faster with the same pressure. It also comes in some nice light rifles. Whats not to like? Don't you like new things that are better?

PJgunner · #14 03-18-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Moss
PJ Gunner,

The 270 WSM is already more popular than the 280 Remington. Anything can go obsolete and the 280 is on the verge.

The 280 AI is not a wildcat but an improved cartridge and fires factory 280 Rem ammo!

Have you pressure tested your 3000 fps 150 gr 270 load? Whatever. The 270 WSM holds more powder than the 270 Win and will launch bullets about 150 fps faster with the same pressure. It also comes in some nice light rifles. Whats not to like? Don't you like new things that are better?

Sorry Mike, but the 280 AI is a wildcat. Period. All AI rounds are made by fireforming factory ammo in them with a bit of a velocity loss while doing so. Bit no AI round is factory chambered with specifications by SAAMI.

Yes, I have had my .270 load pressure tested by the H.P. White laboratory. A bit pricey but worth it. The load has also proven safe in three different rifles.

You might want to check out the latest issue of HANDLOADER MAGAZINE. Interesting article on the .270 Winchester. On page 64, he show a chart where he compared the .270 Win. vs the .270 WSM. The relevant part for me is the comparison between 150 gr. bullets as that is all I use in my .270s.
.270 WSM with 24" barrel.........3,011 FPS
.270 Win. with 22" barrel..........2,988 FPS

WOW! A whole 23 FPS faster in favor of the WSM.

Doesn't seem to be all that much better to me. At least not with the weight bullet I prefer. FWIW, my .270 Win. rifle has a 24" barrel.

I agree that the .280 is not doing well, but I feel that is Remington's fault for sticking in a semiautomatic in the first place where chamber pressures had to be kept lower than what could decently be loaded in a proper bolt action. But that's Remington's screw up, not the fault of the cartridge.

I have nothing against some of the new cartridges. I just personally see no real need to buy one. I currently have more rifles than I'll ever need for whatever that's worth. Why should I dump what I have in order to get the "new and improved" when I don't see that much improvement?

I go along with the late Elmer Keith's philosiphy in that, "I believe that every man should be allowed to scratch his own fleas in what ever manner pleases him."

There will always be people who will run out and buy the latest in firearms and new cartridges. I've done that for more years than I care to count. I feel I've learned a thing or three in the 55 plus years I've been shooting and just don't get too thrilled over the newest and greatest (?) wonder round to come down the pike. I feel I've done my share in keeping remchester and Winnington solvent. I'll leave it to you younger guys to carry one.
Paul B.

fabsroman · #15 03-18-2006, 03:59 PM

I'm not a big fan of the new cartridges either and I haven't been shooting 55 years. If I am not mistaken, Remington started all of this off with the Ultra Magnums, and those do produce increased velocity. However, they then started with the short magnums and Winchester followed suit. If there is an advantage, it sure doesn't justify me spending about a $1,000 (i.e., gun, dies, etc.) for each new magnum to gain that advantage because it is way too small. I can find other things to spend the money on.

With that said, I am thinking about buying an AR-10(T) Ultra which is chambered in the .300 WSM cartridge. That cartridge does have a decent advantage over the .308 and I want the rifle anyway, so I figured I'd get it in the hopped up cartridge since it isn't available in .300 Win. If the .300 WSM drops off the face of the earth, I can always buy a .308 upper for the gun.