.223 Rem deer rifle???

[Big joe]

I was looking around at ammo at Sportsmans Warehouse the other day and ran across a box of .223 Rem. "deer" ammo. I think it was Federal brand. What do you think? Is a .223 Rem. ever a legit deer cartridge? If so, what loading and under what conditions? I'll tell you, I respect the Utah mule deer a little too much to ever squeeze off a .223 Rem round into one! What are your thoughts???

[Dom]

Big joe, I am also of the opinion that any .22 is too light for NA deer and should be on the books as .243 minimum. Is it legal to hunt Elk with a .22 cf? It's not a matter of seeing how small a caliber you can use to do the job, it's a matter of taking a shot with enough energy to effect a clean ethical kill. You don't always have the perfect broadside shot at 100m or under -- any marginal hit with a .22cf and see how far and if you ever find that deer.

Also, with hunting seasons and work schedules and families, how many times do you really get to sit out and hunt for that big buck, many times not seeing him, then you do get the upper hand on him but he's angled or in the brush, and you better pass on that marginal shot with a .22cf versus plowing a .30 caliber through and knowing he'll be down most times inside of 100 meters. JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[L. Cooper]

The .223 is not appropriate for deer sized game.

The fact that something has been done is no proof that it should be.

[skb2706]

This subject comes up in almost every 'gun' forum there is. The debate rages on.
It would seem silly to me that anyone would use the absolute smallest cartridge legally possible to hunt deer with. But in some places deer are barely 50 lbs.....here in CO they average much larger...whole different animal.

[fabsroman]

I have yet to kill a deer that weighed anywhere close to 50 lbs. Sometimes while dragging them, I have wished they weighed that much.

I wouldn't use a .223 on any deer around here unless I was starving and that was the only gun/ammo that I had.

[Cobra]

223, no way on Deer. Thing is I can remember that the 22 Mag, that's right, 22 Mag was a legal Deer round in southern Michigan until the mid/late 60's. Dropped a 6pt that had 7 0f those darn little bullets of various ages in it.

[Duffy]

.223 never. .243 should be the absolute smallest, but the 30-caliber column is ideal, from .30-30 and .30/06 such as I have used, to .308, etc.

[Rocky Raab]

Big Joe, I'll explain that ammo this way...

If you had a friend who absolutely, positively vowed to run full tilt and head first into a concrete wall, you'd say, "At least wear a helmet!"

That Federal .223 load is like that. For the (insert applicable term here) who insists on using a .223 for deer, you can say, "At least use this Federal load!"

For the rest of you, here in Utah the minimum for deer (the last time I looked) was "a rifle of at least .22-caliber centerfire." The Utah DWR continues to use that language simply because there are so many (insert that same term here) who are too cheap to buy two rifles, and they insist on using their .22-250s for mulies. And then the DWR created language that allows even lower powered rifles. We have those "applicable tern" people in the DWR, too.

Legally, I could use my 22 Hornet here for deer. No - I wouldn't.

[skb2706]

Here in CO .24 cal is the minimum with ....I think 85 gr. bullet. I use a much heavier gun so I never gave it much thought.

[fabsroman]

Here is Maryland view on the rifle regs.

"Rifles used for deer hunting must use ammunition developing a muzzle energy of at least 1,200 foot pounds." Would most .22 centerfires fit into this category?

Seems as though they don't care about caliber, so long as the caliber can generate the required foot pounds.

[RUMLUVER]

I would never use a .22 caliber anything for hunting deer and in some instances I would also hesitate to to use the .243. I much perfer the .260 for deer than the .243 but there are thousands of deer that have been taken with one. I think the 100gr bullets are the right choice in a .243 for deer. As for me right now I am still using my .338 RUM for deer and that is just the ticket for whitetails around here.

[Trapper7]

A friend of mine went lion hunting with hounds. They treed a decent sized mountain lion. It took 3 good shots with a 223 to finally drop the cat out of the tree.

Since that episode, he now uses his 6mm with 85 grain bullets. It's much more lethal and kills much quicker, with one well placed shot.

[fabsroman]

Yeah, I don't think I would be using a .223 on a mountain lion. I don't even think it is a good round for killing a human being. Bet that is going to open a can of worms.

[HPBTMTCH]

This thread has been here a few times before, but it`s still interesting. Like i`ve said, the .223 will work, and using the right bullet i`ve taken 200 pound does with know problems at 300 yards. But these are under perfect conditions, from sandbags and broadside shots. I use a .223 is because the landowners don`t like noise, and the wildlife officer says that it`s either a .223 or buckshot, otherwise i would use a .308, which IMO is the best round for killing deer cleanly, and still having something left to eat. But then again rumluver, that`s not a bad choice either.

[Ridge Runner]

well the hundred or so I've taken with the 223 didn't seem to notice that I shot them with a rifle not capable of killing them,
C'MON GUYS, ITS ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT! with the right bullet, proper shotplacement and they die just like you shot them with a 30/06. What else is a nosler partition for? yeah they don't leak mush blood out of a 22 cal hole, but on a classic double lunger most of the blood is blown out of the nose/mouth anyways. If you willing to wait for the proper shot, and your a good marksman, the 223 will get it done at least as well as the 6mm's.
On that once in a lifetime hunt for a giant northern buck, probably not the best, but it is adequate.
RR