CNN: Middle East

[fabsroman]

Dobbs: Not So Smart When It Comes To The Middle East

NEW YORK (CNN) -- We Americans like to think we're a pretty smart people, even when evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. And nowhere is that evidence more overwhelming than in the Middle East. History in the Middle East is everything, and we Americans seem to learn nothing from it.

President Harry Truman took about 20 minutes to recognize the state of Israel when it declared independence in 1948. Since then, more than 58 years of war, terrorism and blood-letting have led to the events of the past week.

Even now, as Katyusha rockets rain down on northern Israel and Israeli fighter jets blast Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon, we simultaneously decry radical Islamist terrorism and Israel's lack of restraint in defending itself.

And the U.S. government, which wants no part of a cease-fire until Israel is given every opportunity to rescue its kidnapped soldiers and destroy as many Hezbollah and Hezbollah armaments as possible, urges caution in the interest of preserving a nascent and fragile democratic government in Lebanon. Could we be more conflicted?

While the United States provides about $2.5 billion in military and economic aid to Israel each year, U.S. aid to Lebanon amounts to no more than $40 million. This despite the fact that the per capita GDP of Israel is among the highest in the world at $24,600, nearly four times as high as Lebanon's GDP per capita of $6,200.

Lebanon's lack of wealth is matched by the Palestinians -- three out of every four Palestinians live below the poverty line. Yet the vast majority of our giving in the region flows to Israel. This kind of geopolitical inconsistency and shortsightedness has contributed to the Arab-Israeli conflict that the Western world seems content to allow to perpetuate endlessly.

After a week of escalating violence, around two dozen Israelis and roughly 200 Lebanese have died. That has been sufficient bloodshed for United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan and British Prime Minister Tony Blair to join in the call for an international security force, ignoring the fact that a U.N. force is already in Southern Lebanon, having failed to secure the border against Hezbollah's incursions and attacks and the murder and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers.

As our airwaves fill with images and sounds of exploding Hezbollah rockets and Israeli bombs, this seven-day conflict has completely displaced from our view another war in which 10 Americans and more than 300 Iraqis have died during the same week. And it is a conflict now of more than three years duration that has claimed almost 15,000 lives so far this year alone.

An estimated 50,000 Iraqis and more than 2,500 American troops have been killed since the insurgency began in March of 2003, which by some estimates is more than the number of dead on both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict over the past 58 years of wars and intifadas.

Yet we have seen no rescue ships moving up the Euphrates for Iraqis who are dying in their streets, markets and mosques each day. French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin has not leaped to Baghdad as he did Beirut. And there are no meetings of the Arab League, and no U.S. diplomacy with Egypt, Syria and Jordan directed at ending the Iraqi conflict.

In the Middle East, where is our sense of proportion? Where is our sense of perspective? Where is our sense of decency? And, finally, just how smart are we?

[BILLY D.]

fabs

make up your mind. in one sentence you blame hezbollah and the next sentence you blame israel.

thanks for your support.

[fabsroman]

I'm not supporting anybody. I am trying to figure this out. If you paid attention to all of my posts, you will note that I sided with Israel as far as the arabs starting this war in 1947. However, that was based upon reading off of an Israel sponsored website. Most countries will not speaking badly of themselves. If I ever hear an American Jew say that we should stop supporting Israel, I think I might just be shocked to death. Since reading that, I have read other things too, as shown by the article above. While the arabs started the fight, it looks like both sides want the fight to continue. That doesn't necessarily give Israel clean hands here.

Okay, now I have to go and play cards with my wife and the in-laws.

Funny thing is that on a cycling chat board I visit that isn't quite as extreme right, there is a lot more support for cutting all ties with the Middle East and just worrying about ourselves.

[Steverino]

Fabs,

Isolationism leads to dictatorships and eventual war. This mindset led to the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany. We're just fooling ourselves if you think that we can just drag-up and go on our merry little ways and leave all the happy turban chaps to their own joyful exuberance.

Like it or not, this nation is addicted to oil and any changes in either curbing or completely weaning ourselves off is years down the road. Not maintaining a presence or alliances with allies in the Middle East would certainly not bode well for the world's market price per sweet crude barrel.

[fabsroman]

Okay, so how does our alliance with Israel help the price of crude. Seems like we should be more aligned with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Doesn't Iraq and Iran produce a decent amount of oil too? So, how can we be aligned with the arab countries and Israel at the same time? What happens if we find out that Saudi Arabia has been helping Hezbollah? Should we invade it too, or back Israel in a war against Saudi Arabia if it decides to go that route? Again, these are all hypotheticals, and I seriously doubt that Saudi Arabia is helping Hezbollah, but one never knows.

I am just praying that Ford comes out with something that gets 40+ mpg by the time I need a new car. I was in my parents' neighborhood two days ago visiting a couple of clients and I had to get gas. I thought I was getting screwed when I paid $3.11 a gallon, but when I got home I saw that the station by us was charging $3.17 a gallon. I think that might be the most I have ever paid for gas. If it isn't, it sure is close. It cost me $43.50 to fill up my Taurus.

[Steverino]

Besides oil, these days Saudi Arabia's largest export seems to be radical muslim sects that are hell-bent on the destruction of anything Western in idealogy or belief. (Just take a look at the 9/11 terrorists, for starters) The general treatment of women in Saudi Arabia makes the ones that were under Taliban rule in Afghanistan look like a group of miscontented suburban soccer moms at a PTA meeting. Our government looks the other way when they feel it beneficial for business or security interests. It would not surprise me one iota if members of the Saudi Royal Family were supporting Hezbollah.

This should come as no surprise since we did it both with Iran as well as Iraq in the 70's amd 80's, depending on the current circumstances of the day and the US administration in office at the time.

We dragged up the Sultan AB in Saudia Arabia and moved operation to Qatar. This was done for tactical operations as well, I think in the change of Saudi leadership and growing anti-American sentiments within the country. It's a love/hate relationship.

You may not like Israel's current position or their statehood beginnings but you do not see them intializing terrorism around the middle east and world because of their religious ideology and their military firepower (paid by US taxpayers) is the hammer in the region. With Iran's nuclear ambitions, I personally do not mind them as an allie at the moment.

The Israeli Air Force has taken out reactors in Iran in the past when they felt that they were not being used to provide fuel to heat the afternoon tea. This was done with US planning and surveillance.

If I have to pick a country in the region that my taxdollars are going to go to and support, it will be Israel until something better comes along.

BTW- As I'm sure that you are well aware Fabs- oil is a global market commodity. Shutdowns in Iran, Iraq, Saudi, or Venezuela or anywhere else for that matter, hurt both the economy and yes, even our personal portfolios.

[fabsroman]

Steverino, it depends on what you consider terrorism. Does bombing and shelling the heck out of civilians count as terrorism, or does it not count as terrorism because those doing to bombing and shelling of civilians are dressed in uniforms. See, I look at the arab style of warfare as guerilla warfare. On 9/11, they targeted our economy by hitting the Twin Towers, they targeted our military by hitting the Pentagon, and they were probably aiming on targeting our government by hitting the Capital or the White House with the plane that went down in PA.

Don't you think the arabs would fight straight up with Israel if they stood a chance? Something tells me that if the arabs had rifles, tanks, and planes to match those of Israel, they wouldn't be using terrorist tactics.

Again, if it weren't for our support of Israel over all these years, we wouldn't have to be worrying about Iran aiming nukes at us.

Yes, I understand that oil is a world commodity and that it is actually traded on the commodity market. However, what happens when there is a shortage of it and we and the other countries all need it? That will be a tough day and a long war. In World War II, the Japanese were fighting for conquest, but their initial conquests were for food, and then they went after the US because we wouldn't supply them with fuel and metal. Wars start over raw materials such as oil.

[Valigator]

It seems at the end of the day when all is said and done...America must stand by its allies no matter what...Israel is an ally...in as much as some of us dont understand it, and I am talking strictly historically...it is what it is...I have read and researched until I can hardly see...I am not happy at the prospect of engaging our soldiers on another front...I am not happy at the prospect of many more years of death and dying for a homeland I have no connection to. But it seems the world says I must, I was trying to wrap my head around it so I could feel better about all of this escalation......and in the same vain, I had no connection with the Saudi's when Saddam invaded, but we stood behind Swartzkoph and celebrated in the streets......there are smarter people than me who I trust know what they are doing, I guess I have to stand by that........