recomended whitetail and muley cartridge.

wiredneck · #1 08-12-2006, 06:58 PM

I am looking at buying a tc encore 50 cal. muzzleloader and because of the ability to change barrels im gonna buy either a 30-06 a 300 or a 308 barrel for hunting whitetails in wisconsin and also muleys in wyoming where the shots may be upwards of 500 yards. I was wondering which barrel you would recommend for flat shooting but yet small enough for the whitetail. Any other caliber sugesstions would be greatly appreciated.

BradC · #2 08-12-2006, 08:04 PM

I have not hunted with a T/C yet but I wonder what the recoil would be like with the 300. I think if I were looking for an all arond deer caliber from these three it would be hard to pass up the ole 06. There is no denying the usefulness of this caliber and you will not have the recoil issues you might with a 300. While an 06 is capable of shots as long as 500 yds, if these were the norm I might be more inclined to go with the 300. However, I feel that most hunters, myself included, cannot reliably shoot this far and should make every attempt to close the distance considerably to 300 or so, perfect for the06.

Brad

rem 700 · #3 08-12-2006, 10:00 PM

30-06

Baylian · #4 08-14-2006, 02:16 AM

I had a .300 Win. Mag. and it kicked like a mule. I hated it. I never shot it. It sat in my closet and collected dust until I paid someone about $200 to take it off my hands. ( I sold it for $500 but it was worth $565 plus the Barnes muzzle break I put on it.) The muzzle blast combined with the recoil made me flinch. A very bad thing when it comes to hitting your target.

Look at the trajectories and sectional densities of the .270 Win. bullets vs. the .30-06. The .270 shoots flatter and hits hard enough to take either species of deer out to any range you can hit them with it. Another good flat shooting caliber would be the .25-06. You don't need a cannon for deer.

Just my 2 cents. Good hunting. TJ

L. Cooper · #5 08-14-2006, 01:44 PM

wiredneck, what is your shooting and hunting experience? I would recommend very different things to hunters of very different levels of experience.

PJgunner · #6 08-14-2006, 03:14 PM

I have never played with an Encore, so this may be more conjecture on my part than anything else. How heavy is the Encore? I have the feeling is is a fairly light weight rifle. Therefore, I would rule out the .300 Win. Mag. even though it is one of my favorite cartridges.
This leaves the 30-06 and .308 Win. which are, at least in factory ammo, just horses of a different color. I recently did a short test comparing 180 gr. Silvertip ammo in both the .308 and 30-06. In a 22" barrel, the .308 was actually faster. The 06 was a bit closer in velocity in a 24" barrel compared to the 22" .308, and finally, in a 26" barreled Ruger #1 the 06 came within 50 FPS of advertised velocity. I haven't had a chance to compare other brands with 180 gr. bullets yet, but will sometime down the road. So, the choice of either the .308 or 06 is push compared to shove.
However, if you handload your ammo, the 30-06 can be loaded up to be close to or equal factory .300 H&H ammo.

You have to be quite careful though as loading for a single shot is somewhat different than for a bolt action. Most obvious pressure signs in abolt action don't even show up when loading for the one-shooters. I base this on handloading for 17 Ruger #1 rifles in various calibers. This is where careful case head measurements and a close eye on chronograph speeds can make or break your day.
Regarding the .308. It is more than capable of reaching out an touching something.

Not quite 500 yards, but the two longest shots I ever made on Mule Deer were 250 yards here in Arizona and 427 Paces on a 195 pound buck in Nevada. I don't remember the load for the nevada deer other than the bullet was the 150 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter, although they didn't call them that way back then, and the powder was H-335. (It was cheap and it worked.

) The Arizona deer was shot with a 165 gr. Speer Hot-core over 49.0 gr. of W-760 for a velocity of 2550 FPS from the 18.5" barrel of a Ruger RSI. The same load delivers 2610 FPS from a 22" barrel, FWIW. There are betetr powders for the .308 than W-760, but that's just about the only load that very fussy rifle will shoot well.

Just one addition here. That long shot was at a 195 pound (dressed) deer than one of my hunting partners had wounded and was getting away. I will be the first to admit that it was strictly a "Hail Mary" shot. Lucky for me and unlucky for the deer, however the point is the .308 can do the job way out yonder.
I've hunted several of the western states most of which are quite open, and other than the two deer mentioned, most of the deer I've killed in California, Nevada, Idaho, Utah and Arizona could just as easily been taken with an open sighted Winchester 94 in 30-30.

In fact the last two deer I've taken here in AZ were at 35 and 50 yards in fairly open areas. I used that .308 Ruger on those two.
Paul B.

JimHnSTL · #7 08-14-2006, 03:46 PM

.280, gots the flatness and the retained energy downrange.

Rapier · #8 08-15-2006, 10:03 AM

The Encore might not meet your requirement, out of the box, accuracy at 500 yards. I have worked on several Encores for shooters and have two friends that have a similar setup as that you describe. With factory ammo and the centerfire rifle barrels, they get 3 - 4 inch groups at 100. With reloads they get about 1.5 - 2 inch groups. The owners have been pretty disapointed with the idea VS their actual results.

I would advise that you talk to some folks that own an Encore rifle before you dive off into the deep end. You might be better off with two guns in the long run.
Ed

buckhunter · #9 08-15-2006, 02:18 PM

I pretty much tell anyone who will listen you just cannot wrong with either a 308, 270, 280 or 30-06. Pretty much the same in any event. My personal choice is a handloaded 280.

Rocky Raab · #10 08-17-2006, 09:08 AM

All the posts above are good. I'd pick the .308, but there's no reason to avoid any of the others (except the 300 Mangleum). Any of them would be fine.

I'll just add that just because you can see deer at 500+ yards out here doesn't mean you have to shoot at them that far away. There are plenty of deer closer in.

Drew_CarreyAB · #11 08-19-2006, 05:09 AM

I own a T/C Encore and I love it!!

I have the .223 26" Heavy Barrel, .300WM 26" Heavy barrel, and the .50Cal MZ..... The .223 goes 1/2 MOA @ 300, my .300 goes 1/2MOA @ 100(75gr RL-22 w/165SST). The MZ goes 1/2" @ 100 as well but using .45 cal bullets make the group look tighter LOL. This rifle is not customized(yet) all I have done is run some factory ammo through the CF's (not the best groups, I admit) and then handloaded the brass. BTW, with the 26" BBls and a scope, my rifle weighs in at 9Lbs. I have found a site that, if you decide to buy a T/C, will assist you in making adjustments to the T/C to suit your liking. I.E trigger pull, hinge pin adjustments, and stuff like that.Bellm T/C Website

Andy L · #12 08-19-2006, 05:31 AM

I dont know why Rocky would make the statement, any of the above, except the 300?

It dont take a cannon to kill deer. And, you dont have to shoot 500 yards. But, you stated you wanted to shoot over 500 yards, and of all the rounds listed, the 300 will take over and outshine them all from there on out. No doubt about it.

Mine has recoil too, but its nothing a normal man cant handle. Especially when shooting at game. I dont see it as an issue. Some may? Hell, my 5"10", 145lb, 12 yr old boy shoots mine and doesnt complain.

I love my 25-06 and use it alot for deer, but I rarely shoot over 250 yards around here. I have a 280 that I like as well, but for the same thing. But, if Im going to the bean fields and think I may want to take a poke out over a quarter, the 300 Win cant be beat by any of them.

Dont let these guys scare you. Its a fine, fine cartridge and should you make a less than perfect hit, your most likely still gonna get your deer. (please dont anyone start one of the old bs internet arguments about condoning bad shooting, just stating a fact)

Andy

Edit: I re read Rockys post and with his play on the word Magnum, I assume its either about the recoil or the meat damage. Neither is a valid argument against a 300. Especially compared to the other calibers above at ranges over 500 yards. Actually, if I could only keep one rifle for deer, I would sell my 25-06, 243, 280, 308 and 30-06 and keep the 300 for all the reasons listed above.

quigleysharps4570 · #13 08-19-2006, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by L. Cooper
wiredneck, what is your shooting and hunting experience? I would recommend very different things to hunters of very different levels of experience.

Curious myself. Most these days seem to want a rifle that they can take a 500 yard or longer shot with. Average Joe don't have access to a range to practice those shots...so it's a "Hail Mary" come hunting season.

Rocky Raab · #14 08-19-2006, 09:16 AM

Andy, quigley answered it for me.

I've been a long-standing non-magnum advocate. I'm not quite anti-magnum, but I'm definitely a non-magnum kind of guy.

There simply are very, very few instances where a magnum anything is absolutely necessary - and also very few people who can take advantage of those few opportunities. Paper ballistics simply do not equate to real-world field results. A cartridge that has a couple of inches less drop and a hundred feet per second more speed at a given range means absolutely nothing when the shooter has to contend with unknown range, unknown wind, moving game and mirage - not to mention a hammering heart, wheezing lungs and a flood of adrenalin.

Add all that into a compact, lightweight rifle that really whacks the shooter with blast plus recoil, inspires at least a dollop of subconscious fear AND is expensive to feed with factory ammo; you have a package that seldom gets shot in practice (at ANY range) . It's a combination that I frankly cannot recommend to a stranger. So I don't.

JimHnSTL · #15 08-19-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Andy, quigley answered it for me.

I've been a long-standing non-magnum advocate. I'm not quite anti-magnum, but I'm definitely a non-magnum kind of guy.

There simply are very, very few instances where a magnum anything is absolutely necessary - and also very few people who can take advantage of those few opportunities. Paper ballistics simply do not equate to real-world field results. A cartridge that has a couple of inches less drop and a hundred feet per second more speed at a given range means absolutely nothing when the shooter has to contend with unknown range, unknown wind, moving game and mirage - not to mention a hammering heart, wheezing lungs and a flood of adrenalin.

Add all that into a compact, lightweight rifle that really whacks the shooter with blast plus recoil, inspires at least a dollop of subconscious fear AND is expensive to feed with factory ammo; you have a package that seldom gets shot in practice (at ANY range) . It's a combination that I frankly cannot recommend to a stranger. So I don't.

that sums it up as well as i have ever seen it.