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#1
11-08-2006, 05:52 PM
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Wheres the Libs?
There always seems to be a liberal or two hanging around, even on a board where that is nuts. Well, where are you? Bring it on. I want to hear some crowing and touting your leaders.
Ive spent several years, good years, listening to bleeding hearts whine, now they got what they want. Bring it on. I want to hear you crow!! That way I can rub your nose it in for the next two or more years. Where are you wimps? 
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#2
11-08-2006, 06:28 PM
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da problm is day ain't got nothin'. wate till there tackses goes up and they tern tale and run out of erak. thay says this wood be anuthr veetnom.
Well all ther wishes have come true. May thay basc in glori. Jest the fealings of a dum veteren. john Skerry said so. SOB, sure is hard to write this way. LILRED you have my respect and admiration.
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#3
11-09-2006, 10:25 AM
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I just hope that all of the "I'm not voting in protest!", " I don't like everything about either of them, so I'm voting for the third party candidate!", and the "There is nothing wrong with voting for a Democratic canidate...It's not like they are after My guns!" Morons enjoy the next few years.
God help us all...  Tall Shadow PS +2 years....We TOLD you so.
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#4
11-09-2006, 01:26 PM
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Being from Taxachuetts I am a red dot in a sea of blue. The bastards will never get me down. If history is right we have a 12 years of liberal crap to look foward to. The GOP will be back in 2018 or so.
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#5
11-09-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
__________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."
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#6
11-12-2006, 02:22 PM
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I'm not a regular on this forum anymore but I'll take your bait Andy
  And certainly I'm not the only democrat on this forum. I suspect a sizable number is. This is going to sound very unorganized but I have many different things to say 1. We democrats (not liberals by the way) won because of the hardheadedness of the president. I was never for the war and still not. But I understand we are there now and can't change the fact. But what we're doing is not working as planned yet there is no proposed changes --- from either side. I'm pleased to see Bush as released the sec of state (though I wonder if he would of done so had the republican kept congress). I think Bolton's out as well. And I really think you guys could of kept congress had Bush fired Rumsfeld in october as part of a political move to keep congress. 2. As far as massachusets is concerned, I find nothing wrong with thier politians - including kennedy, kerry, and the newly elected black governor, as well as the other elected officials. Likewise, I find nothing wrong with the ultra conservative states politicians. See, the people vote in who they want. And Kennedy and Kerry wouldn't keep winning elections unless they weren't who the people of the state want. Not all states or people who live there are what people who live on the opposite side of the country want them to be. I understand your anger though for those republicans that live in Mass. 3. As far as congress's agenda is concerned I'd like to see talk of national health insurance, immigration, and social security. We haven't seen this serouis talk in 5 years. As far as the rumers of impeachment - as much as I'd like to see it happen (come on the Clinton impeachment was the repulbican's attempt to overthrow the president for no valid reason) it's not going to be discussed unless something new happens. I think impeachment proceedings wouldn't hurt the democrats in 08 but it won't help them as much as getting more of a grip on the other issues I mentioned - insurance, immigration, and social security. I think congress is still too divided on these issues but if the democrats can be seen as the party who "initiated" these talks they stand an excellent chance of gaining even more seats in 08. And I think then they stand an excellent chance of a social security "lock box" and national health care in 2010-2014 if we can gain more congress seats and get a democrat - or at least McCain in the white house. 4. As far as who will run for President, I'm assuming McCain will get the republican nod. It's way too early to tell though. As far as the democratic side is concerned I see either Clinton, Kerry, or Obama. I think either would do about the same (both general election results and the job should they be president). Like Bill Clinton or not, the democrats and many independants did. I think by giving Hilary the nomination you will get a lot of votes. I don't think she can beat McCain simply because she is a woman as well as the fact that Mccain is a moderate. Obama stands a good chance. He'll get the democratic black vote and the blue collar democrats will vote for him as well because he's not "black" in the sense. I think Kerry though stands the best chance of them all. Afterall, he almost won the first time - when the republican party was stronger. Kerry vs Mcain Geez, what a close election this would be. It could be said they are pretty much the same people  5. Just a touch on guns Now we know certain politicians are anti gun. Democrats are not going to take away guns. Consider the number of gun owning democrats. Agree with it or not, democrats make up a HUGE number of gun owners --- maybe as high as 50%. Blue collar factory, construction, utility, highway workers... Democrats aren't going to do something stupid with guns. This is a scare tactic by the republican party and NRA (who has to be hard lined in their nature so this post isn't an all out rant on the NRA. They possition themselves the way they do because of lobbying nature of government...as does PETA) I support neither as neither tells the truth or makes sense. Andy, do you get or heard of the "River Hills Travellor". It's a southern missouri outdoor monthly paper / magazine on hunting and fishing the ozarks. I can't find my nov. issue - and naturally it's the one I need. But to translate the editorial --- to all you yellowdog democrats of the South. Don't let gun control, a made up threat, make you vote on the side of Big Business. And that's what I consider myself to me --- a yellowdog democrat. Pro FDR, Pro Clinton, southern, pro-union democrat that will vote for any democrat (inlcuding a dog should my cainaine friend be nominated) before voting for any republican. I'm the big dumb fish that took the bait - so set the hook and reel me in 
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#7
11-12-2006, 03:45 PM
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OK, I'll jump in....
Let's go point to point. Quote:
I don't have any trouble in it being unorganized, let's begin.... Quote:
The war is a much more simple concept. The "War on terror" isn't a war against a country, or a state...but a war on a mindset, an idea. We can not point to any particular country and say "Everyone" in that country is a terrorist!", but Rather to a regime/political system or group, sometimes sponsored by a state/country. It's not like WWII or any other war before, where whole countries were the targets of our aggression. We therefore can not simply "Bomb them back to the stone age!" or solve this problem in a simplistic way. We must seek out the large sponsors first, like Iraq and Afghanistan. Cutting off the funding, bases, and relative safety that these people have enjoined up until now. But just as any journey begins with one small step, We have to start this war somewhere...and the most obvious places were Iraq and Afghanistan. Were these the only places that "Terrorists" were/are? NO! Will the "War on terror" be over when we are finished there? NO! Will it make a Huge difference when we establish a fledgling democrocy there. Yes!, Yes it will! Terrorist exist because of ignorance, exploitation. Knowledge/Freedom kills these conditions. If we succeed, the end will be in sight for this madness. Freedom will only have a new and fertile "Soil" in which to grow. What you and I see in the media is .001% of the real story in Iraq/Afganistan. Ask any vets/solders who are there, we have made Unbeleivable progress there! But good news dosen't sell, It also dosen't sell your agenda. The Media Does Not = the truth... never has, never will. What you will hear from the vets is that because of the BS on the media, they are getting their "Hands tied" on effectively dealing with the trouble in the theater of operations. The Republicans and bush, need, if anything, to be more Conservative. That is what won them virtually every race from 1992 on. RINO's (Republican In Name Only) are what has lost it for us. Like McCain, Etc. Quote:
Kerry's a whole series of posts in/of himself. I don't know the new governor, so I can't comment. If the state votes someone in, that is that. The trouble is the ignorance/apathy in the general populace. They will ***** about how bad it is, but not do anything to change it. Quote:
And unless ->you<- are paying for it yourself, I already pay for mine/my family's...with My hard earned money. If someone needs it, let Them pay for their own. I support more than enough freeloaders with my tax dollars now. I will not support any more. Immigration is a whole nother Pandora's box. But the very first thing that need to be done is to secure the borders. Until that is done EVERYTHING else is a moot point. Quote:
Look for Hitlery being your canidate....not 100% yet, but it's looking like that. Kerry almost won the first time? Hahahahaha! check your numbers, Largest voter turn out EVER!, Largest vote gap EVER! It wasn't even close..... Quote:
Finestine, Pelosi, Shummer, Waxman, Kennedy, Conyers....need I go on? Who are being named in to the top leadership positions in the house/senate? (See Above^^^^) Thinking that a Tiger will suddenly stop being a tiger, because you call it a dog.....dosen't make it so. Ask Roy (of Siegfried & Roy) about how "Tame" tigers stop being tigers. Thinking that Staunchly ANTI-GUN people will stop being staunchly Anti-Gun People, because it sounds good, or "would be silly!" is living in a fantasy land. These Ain't your Daddy's Democrats. Quote:
Believing that ->ANY<- democrat is better than ->ANY<- Republican, based only on that is foolish. Quote:
In the end, we must all chose what/who we believe in. Tall Shadow
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#8
11-12-2006, 04:48 PM
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Thanks for a very civil reply
I'll rebut briefly before anyone else posts something different Sticking to the same # format 1. From what I gather from anyalsts after the election, the new democrats that were elected were fairly conservative as opposed to incumbant dems that have been there a while --- the leaders as you mention. It's no secret democrats are more liberal in social programs and dollars but we didn't see too much anti-war, treehugging, gun taking candidates. Remember, we took away a lot of people who have voted republican in the past. You have to be somewhat conservative to do that. I think Afganistan was a country that needed an overthrow. I dont think there was a lot of dispute against that. Iraq was the problem. I do think we broke international laws overthrowing the legal and undisputed leader - though dictator. I also think it was a personal revenge on the part of the president for what Sadam did to his father --- mentioned in the campaign of 2000. So I think this "illegal" ousting is the main problem right now. Sadam was far from muslim extremism - Iraq was the most secular, modern country in the region. We seemed to attempt to fix something that was broken but yet contained. 2. we have different opinions on kerry and kennedy. I have the same opposite views of people like Gingritch (sp), Lott, Bush, Sean hannity, etc. Although suprisingly I like Pat Buchanean of all people.   3. Like anything, I think it depends on who you talk to. I know a couple people online from Canada and their insurance is second to none here in the states. Companies here don't have great insurance plans - and this is caused by insurance and hosptials being "for profit". I pay over 150 dollars a month just for myself in insurance premiums. Even if that same dollar amount goes to the government for healthcare, the plan would be so much better. MY healthcare package sucks and the plan is actually above average of what most people have. I stand by the belief that all americans are entitled to affordable healthcare. The healthcare industry has to be driven to it's knees as does a couple other industies like big oil. Also with war, it depends on who you talk to. My one republican friend came back says as you did - we're doing good things. I have 3 other friends who came back and said this was total disaster. 4. Ok so Kerry lost by quite a few votes. Vote numbers really don't matter as he was only one state away from victory. Vote numbers really don't matter --- just look at 200 Kerry got 48% of the popular vote in 2004. Bush won in 2000 with only 47% The % really doesn't matter. Kerry kept it close at a time when republicans were running pretty good. 5. Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, Pulosi, Shummer, Reid, etc are leaders because of their leadership skills. This is part of the party platform but also their character. Clinton and Kerry have strong leadership traits that speak for a lot of different people. I think Pulosi and Shummer have a public speaking talent that is somewhat soft and assertive at the same time. Then you have hardliners like Kennedy which I think is good to have to remind democrats that politics is a war so to speak and that they have enemies. Everyone there has a different purpose and talent. Like them or not, they are very powerfull spokespeople. As far them trying to take guns away, I still stand by the opinion that they won't make the attempt even if they personally wanted to. BTW, I do think there is a HUGE difference between reasonable and unreasonable gun control. There's not enough votes to pass truely unreasonable illegal gun laws. There's not enough "liberals" in congress to do that. These liberal leaders aren't even going to bring it up because it will be shot down faster than a dove trying to run the gauntlet of a strip of sunflowers. A good discussion though
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#9
11-12-2006, 04:50 PM
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PBR
Have to answer your post even though I have tried to not get involved.
Item 1(following you). I'd rather not be involved in a war in Iraq....But since we took on Saddam etc...we haven't had any more large scale terrorist things happen here. I'd rather our military was fighting the extremists there than having civilians fightin 'em here. Without the military answer that the US used...we'd still be having them happen here. 2. Of course the people vote in who they want..but the problem is that these people vote in senators etc that affect what happens in the rest of the country. I know the US is a representative republic. It really is a shame that the civil war was won by the yankees...cause this is what the civil war was REALLY fought over. The south in the 1850-60's was being told what they could or couldn't do by politicians who didn't even live there. And most people think it was fought over slavery!Happening now also. 3. National Health insurance. Don't you think that the tax paying public is paying enough now for unproductive "citizens? I agree that there are people who need health care and should get the help...but there are so many more who just let the average joe pay for them...cradle to grave. How about weeding them out of the system. Make the one's who are able to work for the "common" good. They are taking from the common tax trough. And I'm not talking about old people not getting what they deserve and need. They worked for it and should get it. I am talking about the ones who were able to work and didn't. What do they "deserve"?? Your tax money. Well you go give 'em what you thnk they should have I personally would rather be able to put some of the money I would pay into Social security under my own control. But no...the Democrats REALLY don't want that. They use the social security and welfare systems as their platform base. BTW there really is NO social Security trust fund. The dems(and to some lesser degree, Republicans) use the Social security money in the general fund...to "balance" the budget. As far as impeaching Clinton.."for no valid reason??". I really do expect the President of the US to be someone with good moral values! And someone who says things like I tried marijuana...but didn't inhale. C'mon...or what we were doing wasn't REALLY sex....And whether he likes the Military or not...he really should respect them rather than what Clinton did to them. As far as Mrs. Clinton...Have you ever taken no money and turned it into more than 100,000 dollars..legally?? And then have no knowledge of how ya did it? I doubt it...and you would really have to question that too..if you were objective. 4. As far as Kerry running. I hope not. His wife is a foreign national with leanings to foreign interests. Not good for OUR country. And In my opinion, Kerry was involved in traitorous acts here in this country...along with that actual traitor Jane Fonda. Most of the others would have us so tied up with the UN we'd end up being a client state of the UN. If you want to give up your individual freedoms...go somewhere else so you can do it just for yourself...not the rest of the American populace. And we surely don't need more illegal aliens in this country... More jobs gone and notheing coming into the social security system. What part of ILLEGAL don't the democrats understand? or the repulicans for that matter. 5 As far as guns... How dumb can ya be. The unions supported the Senators and Representatives that sponsored Nafta..which did away with so many AMERICAN jobs immediately. Did you support the politicians that passed that most stupid law?? I saw a long time ago that my union dues were being spent in opposition to what my brother union members believed in. The International told us to shut up...but send our dues. These are the same politicians that want your firearms and other rights too, if they can get them. And the Unions and their members will go along with this agenda just like good little sheople. The main thing the Unionists want is more money...they could usually care less about the other issues. Guns and gun control are so far out of their loop they can't see it. Part of the reasons the large auto companies are in such dire straits is because of the Unions. Do you know what percentage of the price of a car is union wages and pensions? And now they cry because we don't buy substandard union products. And NO it isn't only the union!! This type of person is not what I consider myself to be. I feel I should have some say over my own destiny contrary to the people and politicians you seem to support. The government taking care of me and my money from cradle to grave is nothing other than communism which I would hope even you would refuse to support. You may be an FDR democrat, a pro union, Clinton supporter....but one thing you ain't is a Southern Democrat. I happen to be one of them..and can tell you Southern Democrats are a lot more conservative than you seem to be. Not flaming you...just pointing out the differences between the facts.... and what you want us to believe. Take off the rose colored glasses. Open your eyes to what is really happening in the world. Them Arab terrorists want you AND me dead, bud...not converted. WOW..did I really say all that?? Forgive some of the spelling. My fangers is too big for this laptop keyboard.
__________________
skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin Last edited by skeet; 11-12-2006 at 04:59 PM.
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#10
11-12-2006, 05:16 PM
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Re: PBR
Quote:
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I think it is better to keep social security from the public hands. Yes, it stands to make more money for you but it also stands to lose the money that older people desperatly need. And we're old and grey we are going to need this "gauranteed" money to pay our bills in all likelyhood. Quote:
Naw, the republicans HATED Clinton...HATED CLINTON and I would say actually feared him and what he could accompish because it was against the republican agenda. Quote:
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And do you really think Ford, GM, etc, construction contractors, etc are going to pass the savings on to the consumer or to the company??? Hmm...that's why union and non-union houses cost the same money for the consumer. The owner is pocketing the rest. You're right I am talking more like a socialist than a southerner. Maybe I need to start a third party and call it the "Southern Socialist" party I hope no other posts came in while I'm typing because my hands are getting tired
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#11
11-12-2006, 05:51 PM
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Answers
We aren't creating the terrorists.. The clerics and moneyed people backing the terrorists are creating them. They brainwash some poor schmuck into strapping on a bomb or whatever and doing what they don't have the nerve to do themselves. You(and many other liberals) think we are fighting a war with another country. We aren't. This is a war of a democratic way of life with a theocracy..a religion. This(muslim) religion lost control of the world in the middle ages...and have never forgotten it. They want it back. And they did control the world....for 600 yrs or so...more actually as they were not pushed from Spain until the 1400's. As far as Israel and the Palestinians. It'll never stop till one side or the other is gone. And the Arabs etc want..no NEED the Israelis to be gone. BTW I don't think we should support the Israelis blindly either. That causes terrorism for us as much as anything.
Don't know where you get the info about the Stock market etc...but long range stock investment has always been and probably always will be very productive.. But the real thing is if people are allowed to invest the money under guidelines that can't be changed..it will all work out. Just don't let a bunch of POLITICIANS have the money to do with what they want. They always screw things up. Well my moral values and yours would really clash I guess. I hope she wasn't uglier than Monica There were other things that were wrong during that administration..Vince Foster for one..not supporting our troops with what they needed in Mogadishu...and other little things that just show him..and her... to basically be dishonest people.As far as union and non-union houses costing the consumer the same. Trot those facts out bud. It just ain't so. I have been offered a union job and a non union job...doing the same thing for a vastly different amount of money. Course the union dues would eat up about 50% of the difference along with other costs associated with the union. I would actually have to pay more than a weeks salary to join it...and my dues would go to support politicians who's views are diametrically opposed to mine. They want to take my liberties away for the "common good"? No thanks. How do you weed out and reform the non productive getting such a large chunk of the taxes we pay. You have no answers and neither does anyone in our government....mainly because they are scared to take the bull by the horns and just say...NO MORE... If ya take money from the public..then you should give something back to the public...other than grief!
__________________
skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin
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#12
11-12-2006, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
If it's any consolation, I believe that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld should have been dumped long, long ago, but for entirely different reasons than many who were eager for his departure.
__________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."
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#13
11-12-2006, 07:39 PM
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You would think a former social studies teacher would know better
I would say "typo" but you just don't screw up a whole word. It was a brainfart though  lol
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#14
11-12-2006, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
I'm somewhat surprised that you, as a self professed (former) social studies teacher would hold such Socialist/Communist views!?!?!!? Surely your knowledge of past, and present for that matter, governments would show the utter failings of those systems of government? That supporting those who would turn this country into such a government is shear folly?!?!? I can understand an opposing viewpoint with a valid argument. I can not understand one, based on the wish for a valid argument. Tall Shadow
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#15
11-13-2006, 07:17 AM
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I dont have the time right now, but I will make notes PBR. Be glad to give ya what ya got comin, when I do have the time. However, I also have a hard time giving you any validation at all. Yeah, your a former social studies teacher, but not one that I wouuld want teaching my kids. An admitted socialist? That took away all credibility and doesnt deserve much of a reply.
Anyway, Ill get to it soon and the only thing you have to remember is there are no conservative democrats. They may be when they are running for election, but let them win and get with the rest of their ilk and you will see they are all the same. This thread I started was for the long haul. Not a quick short cutting. I want to feed the PBRs of the world plenty of rope over the next few months/years. That way its a sure death once and for all.
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