first deer/elk rifle

[jojo]

My son turns 12 in two weeks. He's thin and lanky and growing like a weed. I'm not sure if he can take on a 7x57 well enough. A .243 seems too small. I want something he'll keep and pass on.

Any thoughts?

[Dan Morris]

Borrow a .270 n let him try it. My 135lb daughter shoots one well.......What kind of 7x57???????the cal its self is great on mulies and also elk....
Dan

[L. Cooper]

I would like to suggest that size has almost nothing to do with the ability to handle recoil. Experience is the only thing that matters.

It is far better to train someone to shoot and then get a gun suitable for the game being hunted than to try to accomodate an inexperienced shooter to a barely adequate cartridge. If you are going to hunt elk, you need an elk rifle. The .243 is not one in my opinion....... certainly adequate for deer, but not a good choice at all for elk.

Start training with a .22 to learn proper gun technique. Move up in power slowly so technique will not suffer due to noise and recoil. Shoot lots. When your son can shoot an elk rifle accurately (.270 as a solid minimum), then you can get him a versatile rifle and he can hunt elk.

A .243 for elk is an "experts only" cartridge in my opinion. Not likely any 12 year old should be placed in such a position. If a .243 is the point to which his experience limits him, hunt deer for a year or two. then trade it off on a more powerful "all round" cartridge.

[HPBTMTCH]

Savage has the 16/116 fhsak model in elk suitable calibers. They are pretty handy and lightweight rifles, but they come with a factory muzzle brake that can be turned off for when hunting without hearing protection. Also hodgdon has reduced recoil loads on it`s website, and i think remington or someone makes reduced recoil factory ammo to start recoil sensitive hunters out on. And as for recoil and size, i have a 12 year old who is on the thin side and will have nothing to do with a gun that "kicks", his little 7 year old brother will shoot anything, even if it knocks him down, he jumps up and would shoot it again if i would let him.

[catdaddy]

if your talking elk praire hunting [long distances] than a 270. is perfect, but if its woodland hunting, [meduim range] than a good old 12 gauge shotgun with a slug is perfect, better yet start him off with a 30-30, or 12 gauge thata way hell be used to shooting a loud medium recoil weapon and wont flinch or jerk or be scared of recoil when hell get older and use bigger rifles

[muskrat30]

A 308 would be a fine choice. There are plenty of factory load options available.

[scalerman]

7MM- 08 with a 24" barrel. Won't be far behind the 7MM Rem Mag. Remington has a model 700 with a 24" barrel.

[gregarat]

.

My son turns 12 in two weeks. He's thin and lanky and growing like a weed. I'm not sure if he can take on a 7x57 well enough.

I had the same body build at 12, and I was using a 12.ga, and a .30-30. I bet he can handle the 7x57.

If not, I suggest the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser. It is the most popular Cartrage for hunting Moose in Europe. The recoil is very mild as well.

[8X56MS]

One thing that will really help with the recoil is a rifle that fits the lad. A quality recoil pad would help as well.

I gave my son a .243 Ruger M77 for his 12th birthday. He is still killing deer with it, some 26 years later. On his birthday this past December, I finally got him to accept and install a new Pentax Lightseeker scope. He has been using the original 4X Weaver for all these years.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by 8X56MS
One thing that will really help with the recoil is a rifle that fits the lad.

Amen and ditto! It cannot be said often enough.

[Riposte1]

I have a friend who was primarily deer hunting but had an elk tag and when a 6X6 walked out in front of him he just could not resist the temptation. 2 shots from a 7mm-08 worked. He says it is not what he would have chosen but he got away with it.

It would have probably worked better with a heavier bullet instead of the 140 he had picked for deer (far as I know a 140 is fine for deer but I dont have any 7mm experience....yet).

For the young folks I would figure a 7X57. 280 Rem or .308 would be jsut about right though I, personally want a bit more bullet for a 1200 lb critter...but that is just me.

Riposte

[Rapier]

JoJo,
Were I looking to buy a gun for a youth or slightly built female, no doubt in my mind what I would do, get a 6.5mm. Either a 260 or a 6.5x55. The two rounds kill way beyond what the uninitiated would believe and are extreamly accurate. The 260 or 6.5x55 come very close to duplicating the 6.5x284 or 6.5x06 in performance.

If you reload, the choice of bullets is almost as wide as the 30 cals, with the Barnes and Nosler bullets giving deep penetration for elk and moose. The Sierra line gives the shooter a varmit rifle anf Hornady makes it a deer gun.

The recoil is modest. The Swedes swear by the 6.5x55 for elk sized game.
Ed

[Riposte1]

I cannot speak for the smaller stuff on elk (other than my buddy's with the 7mm-08) but I sure can say it kills deer just fine and like Rapier said, it is a very pleasant gun in .260 or 6.5X55 (I Have also shot a 6.5X57 in the Steyr Pro Hunger - it was very mild).

To be honest, my 6.5-06 does not kick much either but then it is an 8lb rifle unlike my .260s and 6.5X55.

By coincidence, today I was riding around with a wildlife biologist and his 2 assistants looking over some of our training site management area and the subject turned to deer rifles. The four of us could count over 20 deer we had actually seen lost to the .243 or 6mm Remington...most of them finally recovered but ruined. Of course that is over a long career for two of us, the other guys are still wet behind the ears at about 35-40 years of age By no means is 20 the majority of the deer shot with those calibers, so dont take it as a blanket condemnation.

Riposte

[PJgunner]

Originally posted by jojo
My son turns 12 in two weeks. He's thin and lanky and growing like a weed. I'm not sure if he can take on a 7x57 well enough. A .243 seems too small. I want something he'll keep and pass on.

Any thoughts?

First off, it would help to know if you handload ammo? Second, modern rifles in 7x57 can be hard to come by. Three, current factory ammo is a bit scarce, which in turn makes handloading almost a must. I could probably come out with a few more negatives, but won't. Why? because I think the 7x57 is just about perfect for your son's needs. One, recoil is not all that bad, especially from factory ammo as it's not loaded to it's full potential due to all the old weak 1893 and 1895 Mausers still floating around. My suggestion would be to handload a 120 gr. Nosler ballistic tip using the starting load. Once he gets a bit used to that, increase the charge by one grain and let him shoot those for a while and so on. Them you can graduate to one of the 140 gr. bullets and work up with them for a while. Most of the 140 gr. bullets will be just fine for deer, even the big deer in your area. When it comes time for elk, one of the 160 gr. bullets should work just fine. Heck, the 7x57 made it's reputation with a 175 grain round nose bullet as 2300 FPS, and I wouldn't worry about taking an elk down with one of those provided I could get within decent range.
If you can chase down a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57, give it a decent trigger job and add a Pachmeyr Decelerator recoil pad, you'll have a package your son can literally use forever.
However, practicality being a necessity, I would also give consideration to something in .308 Winchester. With proper handloading techniques using the light loading data from the Hodgden site, both the .308 Win. and 7x57 would be good choices for your son. BTW, thin and klanky is good. it means that as long as he holds the rifle properly, he'll roll with the recoil and not get hurt. At 12, I looked like a soda straw and was shooting a 30-30, .270 Win. and 30-06 without too much discomfort. I think it's more important that the rifle fit the boy, even if you have to cut the stock down some to fit him. I started my stepson on a 30-06. The gun weighed about 8 pounds with a scope. I stuck it in an old stock that I could cut down to fit him and put on a recoil pad. Loads were in the 30-30 range in power. he shot it wothout trouble. I saved the piece I removed from the stock, and when he outgrew the cut down stock, I glued the piece back on, trimmed it enough to fit another recoil pad on it it and he continued to shoot it well. Of course, we worked up to full power loads. When he graduated from high school, I bought him a Remington 700 in 30-06 and he's used it ever since. He runs some pretty stiff handloads though that rifle now.
If you go with a 7x57 or .308, 25.0 gr. of IMR or H-4895 is a very midl load. The 120 gr. bullet for the 7x57 and a 150 gr. bullet in the .308. it would probably work just fine in a 30-06 as well. Good starting loads for a young boy, and he's shooting a real "deer rifle".
Paul B.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the matter.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by PJgunner
[B BTW, thin and klanky is good. it means that as long as he holds the rifle properly, he'll roll with the recoil and not get hurt. At 12, I looked like a soda straw and was shooting a 30-30, .270 Win. and 30-06 without too much discomfort. I think it's more important that the rifle fit the boy, even if you have to cut the stock down some to fit him. [/B]

Very good post all the way around, but the excerpt above is worth repeating,.... so I did.