Ethanol Hoax - 20/20 & John Stossel

[fabsroman]

Turns out that ethanol is no better for the environment than oil. The amount of energy needed to grow, refine, and transport the ethanol is insane and makes it just as harmful to the environment as oil. Further, there is no way that we can grow enough corn to meet the entire need of the US. Right now, if we used all the corn we grow and turn it into ethanol, we would only meet 12% of the nation's need for fuel. Plus, we would need to use a ton of fertilizer, pesticides, and water to grow all the corn we need if we were to replace oil with ethanol.

According to the guy from the CATO Institute, the only ones to benefit from this is Archer Daniels. The other potential benefit is that we would be less dependent on Middle East oil. However, we wouldn't be paying any less for fuel, but just paying American farmers instead of Middle East oil sheeks (sp.).

[jon lynn]

I seem to remember in the early to mid 70's we had 'gas-a-hol' that really was a big let down, and didn't last long at all. It really messed up the internal functions of a motor, I believe it deteriorated pistons and valves, but I can't remember why.

[gspsonny03]

They had a special on this a couple years ago, saying pretty much the same things that you just mentioned. It isn't going to matter. It's all about the money.

[Hawkeye6]

JL:

Gasohol was, IIRC, a mixture of gasoline and 10% alcohol. Its been around for quite a while and popular in some grain producing states.

As I understand it, the alcool on either gasohol, or ethanol (15% eth and 85% gas?) can do a number on an engine that is not designed for it. I don;t think its the pistons or valves that get hit, but a lot of the rubber or plasctic tubing,connectorsand parts in the fuel system can deteriorate from it.

Fabs:

Things are going crazy out in the midwest with building ethanol plants and bio-diesel plants. To a degreee, not a bad thing, but It just does not make much sense to me to be going into it this heavily.

We're diverting corn and soy-beans from food production into fuel. Its not going to lower fuel prices due to the inherent ineffiiencies and additional costs it puts into the system. But it will raise food prices over time.

In addition, we have a limited growing season in the US "breadbreadbasket". Maybe if they plan things right and mother nautre cooperates, some areas could force two crops in a season, but not most of the farmland. Seems like these palnts will be in a real feast or famine cycle during the course of the year. All the cornand soy-bean will be delivered in a 1-2 month time frame and then they will produce for how many months? Will they be able to stock-pile enough grain to produce year-round? Or will it be jsut the Fall for 2 or 4 months, maybe 6?

[Jack]

The gasoline with 10% ethanol has been around for years in my area. I've been buying it for years with no damage to any vehicle.
I think cars today are built with the expectation of having ethanol used in them, and the gaskets, hoses, etc, are designed to withstand the ethanol.
I bet that was NOT true of cars in the 60's and 70's- and that's where the damage stories came from.

[wrenchman]

Ethanol can be made frome any typ of matter frome grass or waste frome other crops like suger beats and suger cain corn husks and the stalks.
It is by no means the anser but it is a start.

[HPBTMTCH]

Yes, the energy used to make ethenal is greater than the energy made, sounds like a guv ment program to me. But i ain`t gonna say anything, been scratching for several years with corn under $2, last year with corn over $4, did`nt even mind running the combine over the fields.

[fabsroman]

Yep, and they are talking about susidizing the ethanol production with our tax money. That is what I have a problem with. if things cannot make it on their own, why should the government be subsidizing anything. This is a free market and if something makes no sense, then the market will deal with that itself.

Granted, the only good thing about the ethanol is that it removes some of our dependency on foreign oil, but again, we don't have nearly enough corn to sustain it, or soy bean for that matter. The best thing for us will be more efficient vehicles and hybrids.

[HPBTMTCH]

Fabs, the government money in farming would scare any taxpayer. BUT, it costs the farmer a lot of money also. A few years ago some brilliant congressman got the idea to give us dairy farmers a pay raise. Gave us .25 cents/100, and to pay for it, charged us .50 cents, but all could say they voted us a raise. Did you know we import corn and soybeans? Yep, it can be stacked outside and no where at the elevators to store it but we keep bringing more in. Did you know we import beef from japan? Why? good question. I`ve heard one guy say about the budget, "a couple billion here and a couple billion there and pretty soon you`re talkin` about a lot of money", just makes one shake their head.

[Jack]

FWIW, oil production is subsidized, too. Oil depletion allowances, etc.
You'd have to do some research to find out exactly how much oil production is subsidized, as compared to ethanol.
If ethanol has no other benefit than paying American farmers instead of Middle East oil sheiks, well, that seems like a major benefit to me.

[fabsroman]

Oil depletion is a tax break that is given to the oil companies. Since I don't do any tax returns where I need to know about oil depletion, I have no idea how it works. I don't know if their basis is determined by the amount of money they spend in finding the oil or if there is just some arbitrary number used to start with.


HPBTMTCH,

Is the corn, soybean, and beef we are importing paid for by the government? If that is the case, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard and it burns me up. If it is paid for by private industry, that is still the stupidest thing I have ever heard, but I can live with it since it isn't my tax dollars going to it.

As American citizens, we should get a copy of the budget sent to us, and it should be available online. We should click on any number and get a breakdown of what makes it up. That way, we can really hold Congress responsible for what they are doing with our money.

[Nulle]

They are building a plant in my city and they are going to use wood bi products I understand.

[GoodOlBoy]

If you read some of the current farm journals however you will find out that not only is the American farmer getting a benifit from it but we are actually planting the most corn in the US since 1940. Corn may take energy to produce, but so does gasoline. It WILL make us less dependant on foreign countries for oil (not totally independant mind you) AND it puts the money in the pocket of Americans NOT ahrabs.

By the way I don't know where the pricing people were talkin about comes from, but I do know when in Dallas E85 ethanol (Which you can burn in ANY modern Chevy marked FLEX FUEL) Was running $2.09 where plain jane GAS was $3.24 a gallon. That is a LITTLE different pricing.

Also I checked on converting my truck to run E85 and since the engine is an '05 the conversion pack from Chevy to make it run E85 costs around $225. IF we had ANY E85 pumps in East Texas you can bet your sweet behind I would pay that out in a heartbeat. For SOME people $1.15 a gallon may not matter, but seeing as I put around 620 miles a week on my truck. . . . . . you add it up.

By the way I wouldn't believe 20/20 John Stossel or ANY of their people if they swore on a stack of Bibles. I have seen them twist FAR to much in the past.

Why is it the SAME people who want to run down E85 and corn production in the media want to hype Biodiesel made from soy? Check out where their funding comes from. The National Soy Council is freaking out. Farms have planted 93% LESS Soy this year and something like 380% MORE corn.

As for me I am allergic to soy. I hope they ban the crap, and I hope we are all burning nothing but PURE ethanol in 10 years. I know its a dream, BUT it isn't any less real than the buggers that want to stop it.

Also somebody mentioned a wood scrap energy plant going in close to them we are getting on here also.

GoodOlBoy