We are less than 5% of the muzzleloader hunters!

[rattus58]

"In the October 2005 issue of "Outdoor Life" on page 78, Ralph Lermayer has an article, "A Fab Five of Muzzleloaders" where he describes five in-line arms. His lead paragraph says,"Before 1985, nearly all muzzleloader hunters carried traditional sidelock guns. Today, more than 95% of them pack in-lines."

I would like to see Mr. Lermayer's footnote on that "more than 95%" figure and have sent him an email requesting same. Here in PA in the October ML season "any Muzzleloader" is legal, but after Christmas until mid-January it is "Flintlocks Only."

At our club, I would say that in-lines make up 50-60% of the muzzleloaders on the firing line. Do we really make up less than 5% of the muzzleloader hunters?

Adam"

While I was perusing through the threads and posts, I ran into this thread started by Adam. I found this an interesting thread for several reasons.

1) Why is it that inlines have so dominantly taken the field regardless of the number.

2) What are we doing to reverse this.

One. I don't know what the number is, it could be less, it could be more, but in a regular muzzleloader season there is definitely a preponderance of inlines. One obvious reason is are the Big Box House sales.. Cabelas, Bass Pro, RNC and a lot of other choices, tend to promote the inline because of the similarity in style to more familiar centerfires.

Another reason for these numbers I'm sure is that there is just so much information about inlines out there. Everything you seem to see and hear about is an inline this, an inline that, 200 yards here, 150 grains there, 3 pellets here, green sabot there and every article you can find in the free press is about inlines.

One thing I have seen too is that many articles in the mainstream talk about hunting with inlines with extreme promise of 200 yard capability and centerline performance is almost like a lullaby to the neophyte muzzleloader.

This ballad of modern performance conjours up visions of long range shots on elk, deer, and pronghorn instead of coonskin caps and long guns that may have preyed upon those of my generation. So what is the answer?

Compound bows enjoy the same popularity as do inlines, but there is a growing number of archers who are tiring of the hype of the heavy compounds and opting instead to experiment with the recurve and long bow.. and a large number are enjoying it more.

One thing we as muzzleloader shooters need to do is to introduce more shooters into the simplicity of the sidelock. More articles and opinions need to be sent into the mainstream mags. If nothing else, the number of emails, the number of articles submitted will que these magazines to the growing interest in sidelocks of various persuasions.

In my opinion ....

Aloha...

[Adam Helmer]

rattus58,

Great Post! It soulded like me continuing my original post from 2005. You ask great questions and as an old investigator, I think you hit on most of the important points.

The sales of inlines "exploded" about 3 years ago at my local gunshop when the PGC changed the October week-long Primitive (flintlock season) to "Any Muzzleloader." Many newbies flocked to get an inline. They are less tedious to keep shooting, in my view. Compare my CVA, 209-primed , closed bolt .45 caliber to a .50 Hawken flintlock. My CVA is 99.999% reliable compared to a lesser reliability depending on sharpness of the flint, openess of the touchhole, hardness of the frizzen and dampness or rain on the gun. Newbies cannot be bothered for the most part with a flinter as I oberve at my local gun club.

I agree, the Big BOX stores are flooding the market with inexpensive inlines that are hyped with long range, ease of use, reliability, etc., everything a new novice wants in the year 2007.

Be well.

Adam

[roundball]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer
rattus58,

Newbies cannot be bothered for the most part with a flinter as I oberve at my local gun club.

"...long range, ease of use, reliability, etc., everything a new novice wants in the year 2007.

You got it...they can't be bothered with learning any kind of sidelock, caplock or flintlock...besides, sidelocks don't have centerfire ballistics and wear long range scopes, so they can't shoot them.

It's not difficult to figure out the reasons...it's all about instant gratification...no work, no learning, and they get to hunt in a special season built by others to use other types of firearms.

From reading other forums, most sit over a corn pile 25yds away with a 10 power scope, high five eah other when they shoot one, and call that deer hunting...worse, kids today are being raised to think that's deer hunting.

[rattus58]

Hi Adam,

This...



or this



When I look at the market offerings I have to ask myself a couple of questions.... What is it about cold silver steel that "turns me on"? What is it about Walnut or Maple or other rich hardwood that "turns me on"? I have guns with Thumbhole stocks on them and somehow they just aren't right. Laminated wood can really be beautiful and colorful... but it just aint right... a nice clean blued barrel (or one that is Black Iced even) with a deep rich wood stock for me is a much warmer more friendly more "real" than are the synthetics... whether laminated or composite. That's one.

Two... some of the offerings just aren't graceful like the old guns are... I'm not talking T/C Hawken here... I mean like the Lancasters, the Isaac Haines and such, the Kentucky or actually maybe Tennessee longrifles.. those guns are just plain beautiful. I'm a member of NMLRA and get their magazine every month or so... and the one thing about the magazine is that they showcase an old gun usually every edition... and the one thing about that is that the only thing I miss about it is that the guns are usually shown in thirds... sad....

Not the point.. the point is I think that there are a lot more people who see the beauty in graceful lines and the value of a rich hardwood stock. The step back is a much shorter one when you are holding a flintlock than you are an Omega... in my opinion.

The question is, how can we get the message out? The best way is through the mainstream media on a regular basis and the bigger question would be how?

I love stories my Dad told me while he was alive... I love stories that other peoples Dad's tell of their exploits and history and I just have a gut feeling that others like a good story too... and that is what is missing for me in the NRA mags, the Field and Streams, the different state magazines.. a little history, a little show case, and a live example of a hunt or shoot. In my opinion, if we could start getting in articles, letters and pictures, emails, gun writers etc. to recapture and rekindle the alternatives, I think the ranks would grow... I can tell you this, its much easier to load my 58 with my homemade loading block and push pin than it is to load a sabot... and in the case of shooting... your shooting pleasure should be measured in pounds of powder...

Aloha...

[rattus58]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer
rattus58,

My CVA is 99.999% reliable compared to a lesser reliability depending on sharpness of the flint, openess of the touchhole, hardness of the frizzen and dampness or rain on the gun. Newbies cannot be bothered for the most part with a flinter as I oberve at my local gun club.

Adam

Of course. People love to look and sit in good furniture but they aren't gonna go right out and learn how to make it, they'll buy it maybe, but a lazy boy recliner is a much better comfort than is a rocking chair. People sometimes have to be taught an appreciation. You can see this in a lot of different ways... free diving is now becoming more popular because of a few who challenge themselves by free diving on TV. You see it in drag racing at the local strip... basics and skill... you see it in archery... and you can see it in muzzleloading when someone is introduced to it.

I think that people need to be exposed and challenged in the right way.

Aloha...

[Catfish]

Years ago I shot alot of Black powder. First in a T/C Hawkens and then in a .45 cal. flinter, long rifle I built. I killed several deer with both guns but lost them both in a fire. Seems as though I just never got around to shooting the old stuff any more. I have a Tenn. Poor Boy in .40 cal. that has been in my vault now for 6 to 8 years that I have never fired, and at one time I thought that would be the rifle to end all. Last fall I killed 2 deer with a handgun and the year befor I killed 1 deer with a handgun and 2 with a muzzle loader, but it was a T/C Encore, with the modern powder and the sabots. It`s not the same as hunting with flint or even precusion, but as I get older I get lazyer and I have always been a meat hunter and not a horn hunter. One of these days I`ll get the Poor Boy out and maybe that will give me the fever again for the frount stuffers, but there`s not many people around here shooting them like there was 20 to 30 years ago.

[rattus58]

Hi Catfish.... that's true... many of us started before the inline craze and still have those old guns stuck away in a corner or in a box somewhere.. but it might be fun to break out the old guns once again heck... why do you think them oldies channels are so popular....

Aloha...

[wrenchman]

I have a side lock and an inline. I hunt with both. I am the last hold out in my group to get an inline.
My thing with a traditional side lock is that I am starting to notice I am having a hard time seeing the front blade in low light.
I took my son out for muzzle loader season for the first time last year. He is 14. I taught him how to load both and shoot both. He has told me he likes the side lock more.

[rattus58]

Got the same problems somewhat here too.. so went to a longer barrel... am going to consider a peep next... in the end... god forbid... I might have to scope it....

Aloha...

[wrenchman]

I do have to say i think the largest thing with the side locks there are no choices for a starter they all cost a lot of money.
when i got my side lock there were no in lines and when knight started makeing inlines they cost more then a reguler rifel.
Now you can pick up a in line and a kit and go hunting the same day for about 200 dollers.

[rattus58]

You know.... I haven't looked at the prices of these guns till you just now mentioned it.. and you're right... Cabela's has them for about 400 to 600 dollars.

But that doesn't change my opinion that we should continue to introduce people to them... longbows cost a lot too... and I just bought another one that retails for $700+... people will spend money if they see the value of the purchase.

Aloha...

[popplecop]

I wonder if it will be like archery and you will see a return to the more tradional muzzleloader. I have never tried the inlines and at my age I'm not changing. Have shot MLs and BP cartridge guns for at least 50 yrs. and see no reason to change. If I want pinpoint accuracy at over 100 yds. or whatever yardage have a number of very accurat scoped rifles. I'll just stumble along enjoying myself with a flinter or even a tradional percussion gun hunting deer. And don't need bait, if really hungry I know where the local grocery stores are. Hopefully the pendilum will swing back and am trying to educate my 4 grandsons along the traditional lines.

[Adam Helmer]

roundball,

You "have a keen head for figuring" and obviously have been to local ranges where the "Muzzleloaders" did not have a clue as I have observed at my local club.

Your "instant gratification" with arms is akin to my term: "micro-wavable smarts." Either way, very few folks have an inclination to learn to shoot sideloader muzzleloaders.

Last December the local Agway Farm Supply store ran a "Close Out Special"on CVA Fire Bolt Ultra Magnum Inline arms. The Retail price was $299 and the Close out price was $137.79, with tax. I got the LAST one, of 35, on 12-16-06. I was merely curious and wondered why any muzzloader suitable for deer hunting would go for less than $140 when any sidelock was $400+.

Well, lots of guns were sold to folks with no inclination to learn to "tweek" a flinter since PGC will allow "ANY" muzzloader in October. Yes, my CVA is accurate, will "digest" 150 grains of powder behind a 195 grain jacketed bullet. I will not hunt with it, but it does not take a genius to "Load and Lock" this "cheapie" arm.

Ok, guys, let's get back to TRADITIONAL MUZZLELOADING! I really prefer flinters and so does my loyal Lori dawg.

Adam