need a good gun safe, any suggestions

Squid4 · #1 09-27-2007, 02:34 PM

I need to get a gun safe. I need to put it in my basement. My house is old so my basement is not finished, it has concrete walls and floor thats it. So i need a safe that can withstand the temperature change of the seasons and one that will protect the guns inside so the change of seasons won't affect the guns...any suggestions?

thank you ahead of time for you thoughts.

fabsroman · #2 09-27-2007, 03:14 PM

As much as I hate to say it, I would go with a Browning. That is what I am going to buy once I get around to it. I was going to buy one this year, but we will be moving from our townhouse into a single family home in a year or two and I don't want to have to take it with us.

My dad has an American Security safe and it seems to be doing the job pretty well. It is located in a musty/humid area of the house and there really hasn't been too much of an issue with the guns in it. Then again, do have three boxes of dessicant in it and I recharge them somewhat often. I don't think you will be able to find a safe that is completey air tight because most have a plastic gasket around the door that is made to expand when it gets hot. This is what makes them fire proof.

If you are keeping the safe in the basement, try to make sure that you keep it away from and gas lines that feed the furnace, water heater, or anything else in the basement. Might not be an issue in your basement, but I know it is one in my parents and most other homes. The additional fuel source will only subject the safe to increased temps in the case of a fire.

Contenderizer · #3 09-29-2007, 12:51 PM

As you may know, there is a big difference between gun cabinets and safes. Cabinets are for storage only (very little security) while safes offer much more (though varying degrees of) security. Some are UL rated for fire, and some are not. Some are UL rated for security, and some are not. The more ratings, the more costly. A top of the line 15-18 gun safe, with ratings, will set you back a grand or more.

I purchased a safe that was not UL rated because it was offered at a price that was too good to refuse - and I was primarially interested in security. If I have a fire, however, I'll be crying the blues. Basements rarely burn, so such an animal may work for you ... if, like fabsroman suggested, you keep it away from gas lines, etc.. Should the first floor burn, heat rises and your MAY be OK if the fire dept is nearby.

If your furnace is located in the basement I wouldn't be too concerned about the cold, winter months. It would more likely be the damp summer months that would take their toll on both guns and locking mechanism. I strongly suggest an optional dehumidifier, which are only about $30.00 (electricity required).

Basement installations also run the risk of flooding. Getting your safe up off the floor in the event of a sewer back-up, etc, should be considered. You could pour a small concrete slab and get the safe up 4-6" which may be a lifesaver some day. If you have a major flood, however, you are in big trouble.

Decide on your need for fire/security rating (or not) and look for a sale. Most gun safes are of adaquate quality to fend-off the amateur thief. You may not even need to bolt it to the floor as most thiefs won't take the time, or expend the effort, to haul it up the stairs. I would avoid a safe with an electronic lock because of dampness.

fabsroman · #4 09-29-2007, 01:15 PM

This is the one I want when we get a single family home:

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...ue=001F#center

However, I'll get it with either the mallard or geese scenes instead of what is in the pic. The cost is going to be a little over $2,000 with shipping and the options that I want on it.

Jack · #5 09-30-2007, 12:05 AM

Something to think about: if you have a catastrophic house fire, and the gunsafe is in the basement, the fire may burn up, but the water used to put the fire out goes down.
You will end up with a gunsafe that, if it's fireproof, may well save the guns from fire. But, if it isn't waterproof, you may save the guns only to have them ruined by immersion.
Another thought: even if you put the safe on the first floor, if you have a really bad fire, the safe will end up in the basement.

fabsroman · #6 09-30-2007, 02:23 AM

Most of the better safes have a rubber gasket that isn't air tight initially. However, it is made to expand and become air tight once it is heated by a fire. That is why the contents don't get burnt or damaged when subjected to 1600 degree for 90 minutes. The safes are also insulated to help with the heat.

Now, if that gasket expands during a fire and creates an air tight seal on the safe, I would assume that the seal would also be water tight. So, that should take care of the water issue. However, as mentioned above, putting the safe on a concrete block specifically made for it would be another way to accomplish this. Maybe 4" off the ground would be a good idea.

Me, I have all kinds of idea for my gun/bike room when we move into a single family home. Problem is getting the home and then being able to afford the room.

Duffy · #7 09-30-2007, 07:47 AM

Squid, you could always just store your guns at my house

Seriously, I have this Stack-On:

http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus...s/gsd-419.html

I have the adjustable shelves out for more gun room, and store my ammo in another lockable cabinet elsewhere. As my collection expands, however, I will need to upgrade.

fabsroman · #8 09-30-2007, 10:49 PM

That Stack-On would be too small for me. That is why I am going to go with something that can hold around 40 guns. If I fill up a 40+ gun safe, then I know I have some issues, ..................... because that is about the largest safe they make. LOL

spike1 · #9 10-01-2007, 01:52 AM

If you get discouraged make sure you check Home Depot and Lowe’s. Much to my surprise they have some OK gun safes. Not the best but much better than the cheesy sheet metal ones. A good theft deterrent but most likely not much protection in a fire.

Rapier · #10 10-01-2007, 07:33 AM

Sorry guys but you are going through a lot of unnecessary hunting and figuring. All that is needed is a cheap safe without fire protection and the purchase of good insurance.

Your home owners policy has a limit on sporting goods for theft, the entire contents limit applies to all other forms of loss covered by the policy, including fire. Buy the safe for theft protection and nothing else.

I have seen way to many house fires and the aftermath during the 40+ years I have been an insurance broker and the 19 years spent as a fire commissioner. If you have a basement it will not have a little junk in it and a little water. It will be full to the top with debris and filled to the top with water, just like a junk filled pool. The safe being the heavy object will be on the bottom. On the floor or in the basement makes little to no differance, the safe will end up in the basement regardless. The basement may become a fire pit before the fire is put out. It will not be the next day when the safe is removed, it might be the next month after, the fire dept investigation, state fire marshal investigation, removal of the upper debris, insurance investigation, etc., etc. What you will have when the safe is opened is an burnt, rusty, iron box filled with rusted junk.

With a slab foundation, you have a chance, in a city with a quick response. In the country well, the locals call the volunteer departments the "slab and chimney rescue squad." It is rare that a volunteer department saves a house from being a total constructive loss.
Ed

fabsroman · #11 10-01-2007, 06:33 PM

Rapier,

I live in the city, and would be more concerned with theft than with fire. Yeah, house fires happen, but I know of more people that have been burglared than people that have had their house burn down. In fact, I only know of one house that has burned down, which was in the "country" in PA. It was my aunt and uncle's vacation civil war home located on 100+ acres where we loved to spend our weekends. The fire did some damage to the house, but the fire department was able to put it out and we actually got to see the extent of the damage. While it was sad and bad, it wasn't completely horrible and a safe in the basement would have probably survived.

Now, of people getting robbed I know plenty of people. I am more worried about my guns being stolen.

I am also thinking about getting insurance on my guns and bikes, but then I have to deal with the valuation of them after the incident happens. Trust me, most insurance companies nowadays don't want to pay out on claims. We have a separate rider for my wife's engagement ring and wedding ring, and I cannot imagine the insurance company handing over a check for $15,000+ if something happens to that diamond. Of course, I could always be wrong about this, and surprised at the same time. I'm hoping I never have to find out one way or the other.

Another issue with insurance is that over one's lifetime, it isn't necessarily cheap. The investment in the safe is $2,000, how much would insurance cost on a $30,000 gun collection. Plus, some of my guns have sentimental value to me. My BPS was given to me by my dad on my 8th birthday. My dad and I bought the Citori together when I turned 18 from money that I earned at a hot dog stand. Killed my first deer with my dad's 30-06 which will eventually be given to me. How does insurance replace all that? It just doesn't.

So, I'll be going with the safe, and then maybe, just maybe insurance. However, I have been thinking about building my own home and making a concrete lined safe room where I can keep my bikes and my guns. All of the walls, floors, and ceiling would be in reinforced concrete, there would be a vault door to get into the room, and there would be a Browning safe in the room for the guns. That should keep my gun collection and bike collection pretty safe and hopefully out of harms way from a fire.

skeet · #12 10-01-2007, 10:59 PM

Fabs Join the NSSA or the NSCA and you can get insurance on your guns for 1.25 per hundred..no deductible and it even covers while hunting etc. PM me for the particulars if interested. Get a Safe any way. If buying a Brownig don't mess with the cheaper ones...get a Gold Model. Much better and more expensive of course. If you want a good price PM me on that also. I know where they can be bought for wholesale.

Rapier · #13 10-02-2007, 07:19 AM

Skeet,
The NSCA program is an excellent program, I have been asked about the program and looked into the program for members of my sporting clays group.

Fabs,
Look at my second sentance.

Ed

fabsroman · #14 10-03-2007, 12:18 AM

Yeah, the kicker is "good" insurance. However, I have yet to see anybody think they are buying "bad" insurance. Usually, they find out it was "bad" insurance when they have to make a claim. Kind of late to find that out.

With the NSCA program, I believe you pay for 40% of the guns' value over 30 years. I'll have to think about it. I'm definitely going with the safe and safe room, and I'll debate the insurance after that.

skeet · #15 10-03-2007, 02:05 AM

Fabs, my friend, don't you carry insurance on your house, on your car, on your life?? Why not your guns? Of course you will pay a percentage of the value of the guns as you do with the house, car and your life. Hopefully the value of your guns will rise over the years(if we are even allowed to have them 30 yrs hence). The NSSA/NSCA insurance is a pretty good deal. I have it on some of mine and feel that it is a real bargain. A friend just had a rider on his homeowners done for a 20,000 buck Krieghoff and it cost him 500 bucks and he has a deductible. You insure your wife's rings and ignore your guns? As I said....Tsk Tsk Tsk There is much better insurance than homeowner riders. Cheaper and better! Even on Jewelry.