Getting ready for the Traditional Flintlock (PA) Deer Season.

[Adam Helmer]

December 26, 2007 until January 12, 2008 is the PA Traditional Flintlock deer season. This is my favorite hunting season. We do not have to wear flourescent orange, there are very few other hunters afield and the big woods are quiet. I hope we have enough snow this year so I can hunt on my Alaskan snowshoes.

My favorite rifle is a .54 caliber Hawken flintlock stoked with patched ball ahead of 75 grains of 3F Goex. That is the accuracy load and good enough for deer. I wear my circa 1756 (French & Indian War) garb complete with sash and 'hawk. This part of PA was the Frontier in 1756. A nice heavy snowfall completes the picture for a long trek afield in the woods hereabouts. This old farm abuts 969 acres of water company woods that abuts 13, 300 acres of State Game Lands #37. One can walk a long time in search of solitude.

Do any other states have "FLINTLOCK ONLY" deer seasons today?

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Do any other states have "FLINTLOCK ONLY" deer seasons today?

Unfortunately, Michigan does not....while most agree that when Michigan started it's 'muzzleloading' season back in 1975, the intent was for it to be a primative season; now it's a bastardization of in-lines, sabots, pellets, and probably (soon to be) smokeless powder.

[skeet]

Although I hope you really enjoy your season ...especially not having to wear the orange etc...I really don't see a necessity for a flinter only season. Don't see the big difference between all the muzzleloaders myself. Gotta load 'em all from the front. But I think maybe they should not allow scopes in a primitive hunt. Keeps people from shooting the long distances that they think they can. I shot almost all my muzzleloader deer with a T-C Hawken 50 with 100gr FFFg and a roundball. Kept the shooting under 80-90 yds and they killed very effectively. People don't have the traditionalist feelings that they used to have. They see the muzzy season as another hunting opportunity(a really good thing). I do not hold that against them though. And if the ultra traditionalist wants to hunt as you do....I don't hold that against him either.

I hope ya get ol' BIG BUCK this season, Adam! Keep yer powder dry! Hope ya have some tracking snow too. That is one of the fun things in the late deer seasons. Tracking snow!

[Swift]

I'm ready Adam!

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

I am hoping for deep snow so I can snowshoe in the woods. Is your .50 T/C Hawken a flintlock?

The muzzleloaders all load from the front, but the difference in reliability pretty much ends there. The flint needs to be sharp and tight and dry, the pan needs to retain the pan powder and there is the possibility of a "flash in the pan" not experienced with a percussion cap or a 209 shotgun primer. I own and shoot all three and the flinter is the wild card in the deck. The Matchlock also loaded from the front, but not many folks would consider them as reliable as a flint or caplock or inline.

Circa 1825, the British Army tested the Brown Bess flinter against the caplock Brown Bess at Aldershot Barracks to see if they were going to adopt the caplock for their military. The flinter had about 65% reliability versus 98% with the percussion cap for 500 rounds fired through each. Guess which firing system the Brits adopted? So, both loaded from the muzzle alright, but both did not deliver at the same rate of reliability and that still is true today.

I read recently that the new muzzleloader hunters buy percussion cap or 209 primer ignition arms by a ratio of 99% to 1% for flintlocks. Many new muzzleloaders are not interested in the care and feeding of a flinter and its inheirent "fussyness" to keep firing, or its failure to fire just when most needed.

Adam

[Jack]

I can't claim to have done a thorough survey, but I believe Pennsylvania is in a small minority of states that mandates the use of flintlock ignition in traditional ML season. Most other states allow caplocks.
Pennsylvania seems to me to have some unique regulations, compared to most states- making semi autos illegal for hunting being one such example.

[skeet]

I haven't ever used snowshoes to hunt with. I have however used them. The first time I did I thought my legs and other things were gonna fall off, You do learn the right gait with tham after a while though. Some of my most fun deer hunting was in the snow with muzzys and shotguns. Never had to rely on the snow to find a wounded deer either. All but one muzzy deer fell within 25 yds. A couple right on the spot. I had a flinter for a while...and the reason I went to a caplock was the reliability. Just didn't have the patience to worry about the flint fired rifle. Heck the caplock was bad enough as we used to have a lot of rain to hunt in..and if not rain..swamps. You had to be very careful hunting them. I had a failure to fire on one of the biggest bucks I ever had the opportunity to take. The cap failed to fire(rain) but luckily as the deer ran off I was able to pull the old cap off and put a dry one on. The god of the hunt must have been smiling on me that day. I whistled..he stopped and stayed.

Understand.... the muzzy season was another week to hunt deer for me. We lived on the meat and it was kind of important to have a rifle that would fire. I also have a Savage smokless muzzy and it is very reliable and a whole lot easier to clean after shooting. Haven't taken a deer with it but have had the opportunity a few times. Just never shot one though. To be really honest with ya I think the flinter was the quickest for me to fire twice. Especially if the cap became stuck as they sometimes do. The first deer I got with a muzzleloader I shot at 3 times. He ran and stopped ran and stopped(thick woods). Had a few friends in Md that went to the flinter after getting their deer for a couple of years with a caplock or inline...just for the experience I guess. To be honest I don't really care what someone uses as long as we have more people enjoying the hunt. We need to recruit more kids and women into our ranks..Hunting and shooting ranks I mean. Anyone that becomes a hunter is important to the sport any more. Only 5% of the population hunts now.

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer
December 26, 2007 until January 12, 2008 is the PA Traditional Flintlock deer season. This is my favorite hunting season. We do not have to wear flourescent orange, there are very few other hunters afield and the big woods are quiet.

Dittos.
I've been ready since last year and even have off on opening day. (same for first day of buck season too when I'll be using a SMLE No1MkIII)
My 54cal early Lancaster Pa Longrifle will be used this time out and the Brown Bess will have to wait for spring turkey...

[Adam Helmer]

Jack,

A friend working at T/C told that if it were not for the PA Traditional Flintlock season, probably only custom gunmakers would still be making flintlocks in 2007.

Skinny,

I am glad you will use a No.1 Mk III opening day of rifle deer. I will have my Mk III out that day as well.

Adam

[rattus58]

Adam,

I'm amazed at how sensitive you are. You make comments that a flintlock is 65% reliable TODAY... you did not seem to want to clarify this, and instead of debating this, you pull a post because you can't take a joke. No wonder this muzzleloader thread has such a dismal showing.

[Adam Helmer]

rattus58,

Your humor is known only to yourself; maybe you are the dismal showing here!

The 65% reliability factor of flintlocks was determined about 1825 at Aldershot Barracks in England. I cannot defend a test I had no part in. No, I will not debate this because I did not participate in the test and have no need to debate.

If debate is what you want, perhaps this is not your site.

I moderate this site when inappropriate posts pop up. Civil and constructive posts are always welcome. Why do you NEED to debate? We do not need debate here; discussion is welcome. Be well.

Adam

[skeet]

I was talking to an industry rep a few years back and he told me the flinters of today(especially the TC) has a very good reliability rate..mainly because of the steel used in the newer flinters and the quality of the flints available. He said the reilability factor was approaching 95%....but of course in good weather. I was amazed at that number. He also said that some of the foreign made replicas were not any better than guns of the past. He also said that high number was in the hands of modern day experts..which I am not!! And doubt I could ever be.

[Adam Helmer]

skeet,

Sure, you are an expert.

At the bench my flinters are some days Very Good and some days "fussy." We all get an occasional "flash in the pan" even though we ran a piece of wire into the touch hole before priming the pan. We all fire along in fine fettle and then a "Clunk" of the flint on the frizzen and no spark. The flint got dull or the frizzen needed to be "freshened" to produce more sparks.

Now, if we add in a rainy or windy day, the odds go up against us.
I would estimate (NOT debate) that my flinters are in the 75% to 85% reliability range on good days. I have never read that flinters had 100% reliability even when serviced by experts because of the many variables in the equation. That is what makes flinters fun.

Adam

[skeet]

I found early on it seemed to matter an awful lot where the powder was in the pan too. An old fellow told me to cock the gun to the left and give the left side of the gun a little rap with the heel of the palm. It got the powder next to the touch hole he said. I don't know?! I had good reliability with my flinter at the bench..in the field..probably no better than the Brits waaayy back in 1825. And it seems the best hunting is in inclement weather...duh!! Oh and believe me..I am not an expert on muzzleloaders for sure...Autoloaders maybe!!

[rattus58]

Adam,

There is no learning without discussion. As far as my sense of humor goes, I love it, so does my dog, why else would he hang around if not for my exquisite appreciation for the absurd.

I don't know who you think comes to these pages, but what I was hoping you'd say, was actually just as skeet said, reliability with flintlocks in my VERY LIMITED experience is much better than 65%. I have green mountain barrels and siler locks with stainless steel inserts to the breech, and a bunch of flints from Track of the Wolf. I get better than 8/10 now that I've had a few months to play with it, and have no compunctions now of hunting with it anywhere, though we've not had the opportunity yet.

Aloha....