New car shopping

[indyhntr]

Am I the only one that feels the need to stick an ice pick in their temple after spending the day car shopping? I completely forgot what a thrill it is to be treated like a total moron for the afternoon only to be quoted full sticker and offered to have my trade taken off my hands for me. Now I'm not looking to have a car given to, me only for a fair deal for everyone. So if you've got any pointers or tips or just have a horror story to share I'd love to hear them. Indy

[jplonghunter]

Indyhntr

Shop the websites first,shop the end of the month (sales people need to make quota ),and walk away if you don't get the deal you want.
Best of luck

jplonghunter

[BlkHawk73]

Find on-line exactly what you want, options and all and print it out. Bring that to each dealer in your area having that brand. hand them the paper and tell 'em that is hat you want, no more, no less and in a couple days you'll return to pick it up with thier best price on it. Tell 'em youre doing this at the other dealers also and whoever quotes the best price gets the sale. NO questions asked, NO negotiations. Plain and simple. They start trying to talk and get you'r contact info, you turn and walk. If they cannot follow a simple "here, I'll be back for it" they don't deserve the sale. It throws them for a loop and brings the game to an even playing field with a bit of lean towards your side.
Second, don't mention trade until after you get a vehicle price. Otherwise it's figured into thier planning.

I figure if I want a certain vehicle bad enough, I'll pay for it. Not neccessarily full MSRP but I'll not expect a huge lowring either. This past spring I was bying a new truck. Nobody had exactly what I wanted. Had to go out of state. I wanted just what I wanted, nothing more, nothing less, so I knew to get that, it might cost me more since they were scarce.

[skeet]

If you can waittill after the Christmas season is over..Jan 2nd and later. You WILL get a better price then. And if you can sell your vehicle outright even if it is less than you think it is worth. You always get a better price without a trade. Course you know this stuff too

[Dan Morris]

If you are going to finance, get pre approval from bank or credit union. This way, you are ready and are not at the dealer 'mercy'
of their deals....also, walk out of negotiations. If you return, it's kinda " are you ready to sell?"
Every dealer gets factory rebates, let em live with these!
Dan

[fabsroman]

My last vehicle purchase was my F-350 and it turned out to be a nightmare. I knew exactly what I wanted, and Ford was giving some pretty good rebates on the 2003 models. Funny thing is that it was about this time of year. I searched dealer inventory online and sent e-mails to all the dealers that had a truck close to what I was looking for. I told them that I would buy it from the dealer that gave me the lowest price over the internet and that I did not plan on spending hours negotiating on it. Well, the lowest price was on an F-350 at a Koons Ford dealer in Virginia. I went there to buy the truck with my 5 month old puppy and new girlfriend. I test drove the truck, because the salesman insisted on it, and then parked it right next to another 2003 F-350 when we got back. The two trucks were almost exactly alike, except the one I had test driven had a black two tone on grey and the other truck was all grey, and the test driven truck didn't have running lights but the other one did. Well, I didn't like the two tone, so I asked him for a price on the other F-350. They were both Lariat Crew Cabs with almost the same options, but the one I wanted was a couple hundred dollars more. That is where the song and dance began. I suggested just adding the difference to the internet price, and the salesman couldn't do that. Why, I have no idea. So, we started the how much are you willing to pay, how much can you afford, etc. My reply was that I could afford the sticker price, but was only willing to pay $35,000 because a fool and his money are soon parted. I knew they couldn't sell the truck to me for $35,000, but I really hate that question during negotiations. After half an hour of us going back and forth, the salesman had to go to the manager to get a price at which point he wanted me to complete the financing paperwork. I was really getting pissed at this point. I completed the paperwork and the guy came back with a BS number, but wanted to run my financing info anyway. I was fuming at this point. I told him he could run my financing info once we agreed on a price. So, he had to go back to the manager at this point. My girlfriend, who is now my wife, went out to check on the puppy that was in my car. She came back with the news that Nitro had gone in the car. I asked her if it was pee or poop, and she said the latter. I went out to look at it, and not only had Nitro pooped in the car, but he had stepped in it and smeared it all over the car. Imagine how mad I was at this point since this process was supposed to be simple because I had obtained the price over the internet. When I went back in, the manager was sitting behind the salesman's desk and we began negotiations again. Again, he wanted to know how much I was willing to pay, and again I told him $35,000. He came back with "How much of a payment can you afford" and that was the end of the line for me. I got up and started to walk out, when he said "I'm going to sell that truck to you or somebody else, regardless of whether or not you walk out." I spent the next hour trying to clean the poop out of my car, at which time the salesman came out and asked me if the problem with the price was because I couldn't afford it. Yeah, that made me feel better. The idiot's boss had been writing with an entry level Mont Blanc pen, so I decided to show the salesman the 3 Mont Blanc pens that I had in my car. One was sterling silver and the other two were stainless steel, all three of which would put his boss's black resin Mont Blanc to shame. I told the salesman to go back inside and tell his boss about the $1,500 worth of pens that I just showed him. I was truly pissed. The ride home in the Taurus sucked, but luckily I had a tarp in the trunk that I put over the front seats and I held Nitro down on the rear floorboard as my girlfriend of 4 months drove us home. Spent the rest of the night cleaning the dog and the rest of the next morning and afternoon cleaning my car. I had to remove the seats, front and back, and use a carpet steam vac on them. I had to remove the speaker grills because it was in there too.

Later that night, I went to the Maryland Koons Ford dealership, gave them the final price that the Virginia dealership gave me, and told them to beat it. They beat it by $200 and I told them to DX the truck to them and I would be back the next morning to pick it up. Picked it up the next morning, which was Saturday, and it was the exact same truck I had been negotiating on. That Wednesday, the idiot salesman from Virginia sent me an e-mail wanting to know if I was still interested in the truck. I wrote him back and said that I found a dealership that beat his price by $200 and I bought the truck from them. He wrote me back and said he had another $500 he could have knocked off the price. I told him too little too late, that I had already bought the truck, and that I was wondering if he even had the truck in his inventory any more. Maybe that gave him a clue. He was pretty nasty on his next e-mail to me, and I left it at that.

I followed the same process 1 1/2 years ago helping my dad buy a Ford Focus. Went to Sheehy Ford in Maryland and looked at the 2 door hatchback Focus because my dad had wanted the cheapest new car possible for fuel economy and to haul his tools and Sheehy had given me the lowest price over the internet. He already had a Crown Vic that was 3 years old, a Thunderbird that was 10 years old, and a F-150 that was 10 years old. Anyway, while looking over the 2 door hatchback, my dad saw the 4 door sedan model, and he wanted to look at it. As soon as the salesman opened the trunk and it looked like a cave, I knew my dad was going to want it instead of the 2 door hatchback even though it was a little bit more expensive. I thought to myself, "Here I go again." The Sheehy low price was already marked on the windshield, which was pretty good, but the salesman took another couple hundred dollars off of it to bring it in line with the reduction he had given us on the 2 door hatchback over the internet and offered the car to my dad for $13,600. Discussion over. My dad bought the car after speaking to the salesman for less than 30 minutes and there was none of the "Let me get the manager" crap. That same dealership had sold 2 Ford GT's that same week and they had one in the showroom. They also had some pretty nice trucks and Mustangs on the lot. I'll be going back there for my next Ford. That was one of the most pleasant experiences I have had.

When I helped my dad buy his Crown Vic, the salesman was a tool. He was completely focused on the monthly payment and couldn't grasp the concept of negotiating based upon the sticker price. I had brought my financial calculator and Ford was offering a 0.9% interest rate on the car, so I told the guy to come up with his best payment possible. When I plugged the 6 year payment into the calculator and brought it back to present value, it turned out to be more than the sticker price on the car. I seriously wonder how many people fall for this "How much can you afford monthly" thing. At that point, I wasn't happy. I told him that if he mentioned monthly payment again, we would walk out the door and I told him to only use the sticker price to negotiate and I could figure out the monthly payment on my own and then my dad could decide whether or not he could afford it.

Honestly, I think the "monthly payment" mentality is what kills a lot of Americans in the long run. We think that we can afford things just because we can make the monthly payment. However, that monthly payment can be used to grow ones wealth. My wife and I have been without a car payment for 2 years and we both love it. We will continue to drive the cars we have until I can no longer keep them running. It allows us to maximize our retirement contributions, to contribute $5,000 a year to our daughter's college fund.

Maybe, just maybe, by the time I have to buy our next car, dealers will all be doing what Saturn and Carmax do (i.e., no haggle pricing where the price on the vehicle is the price you pay, period). I'm also hoping that Ford will have a fuel cell vehicle out, which they are forecasting for 2012. Obviously, I am hoping our cars last that long.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am going to have to refinance my truck and pickup a new car to drive to work soon (new to me anyway I am a big fan of program cars) so I feel your pain buddy.

GoodOlBoy

[Classicvette63]

When I bought my truck in '93, I first bought a book from Consumer Reports, I believe, that had all of the prices that the dealer pays for vehicles. I looked up what I wanted and sure enough the dealer had one on the the showroom floor. I told the salesman, I know what you paid for it and I'll give you a couple hundred over that. Easy as that. Turns out the price I thought the dealer paid for it was within $25. Pretty easy to haggle when you know where to start.

[LoneWolf]

Looking from another perspective....

first off, I work at a new car dealership, I'm the fixed op director currently. But why does everyone think it so "fair" to say " I know what you paid for it and I'll give you $200 bucks more" ???
If you don't like the way a salesman treats you, simple, don't do business with them. With an average price of a car or truck at $30,000, and you are going to offer them barely a half percent profit? Remember, these salesman are working for a living too.
I'll grant you there are some real sleazeballs out there, but they are in every line of work. I deal with alot of them everyday ... as my customers.
And with the privacy laws these days, a salesman can't even start talking price and payments until he has info from you.
I know how my dealeship treats customers. Yes, we make mistakes now and then. But we are in a small, small town. The previous owner was lucky to do 50 new and used cars a month. We consistently turn 150. Why? Because we take care of our customers. Most of our customers drive at least 20 miles to come to us, and pass many dealers on the way. On top of that, we are in a General Motors area. By that, I mean talmost everyone gets a GM worker's discount. They can buy a car for the same price anywhere. Frankly, I could care less about selling you a car today so that you can tell all of your buddies what a great deal you got, and forget all about me. I want to have you telling all of your buddies about how you were treated and buying all of your cars from me from here on out.

[indyhntr]

Well the internet quotes are in and are around 2 grand under sticker which is about what I expected to pay. Now to get the trade value up to where it should be and we'll be all set. LoneWolf didn't mean to get anything started here, just looking for some help getting a fair deal. I'm not opposed to the sales people making a good living or the dealer making a profit, if they don't there wouldn't be anyone there when the cust. pulls onto the lot. Now having said that I'd bet that the dealerships almost never come out on the short end of a deal so that pretty much just leaves the consumer. Now enough of all that: time to hoist a cold one and and forget about these things that don't really matter anyway Cheers Indy

[Classicvette63]

LoneWolf, I didn't have a bad opinion of the salesman that dealt with me. They ended up making about $400 on a $17,000 vehicle. I didn't feel bad about that for several reasons. I didn't waste the sales guys time. Really didn't have that much contact with him. Test drove the vehicle, took the brochures home and made my decision. Secured the financing and insurance, THEN went back and told them I was buying that vehicle. We came to a agreement on price, which they must have been happy with or they wouldn't have sold it to me. Total time I was there, maybe 45 minutes at the most. Seemed like everyone involved was happy with the transaction.

[fabsroman]

LW,

The problem with car buying is the haggling. I would probably be okay with it if a dealer just gave me the lowest price they were willing to sell the car for and allowed me to shop around. Honestly, I have no idea why buying a car is any different than buying a gallon of milk. Sure, I shop around to see where the gallon of milk is cheapest and buy it from there, but I don't try to haggle with anybody over the price. The haggling and mind games is what really bugs me.

The games with the payment amount is something that really bothers me. Extend a payment plan out to 6 or 7 years, and I am sure that a lot of cars will be affordable to a lot of people at sticker; however, they are getting the shaft. I had one client trade in her 2 year old Lexus RX330 on a new Lexus RX330 because she wanted tan instead of gray and she wanted GPS in it, and it didn't cost her anything more (her perception, not mine). All she had to do was trade in her old Lexus and give the dealership $12,000, and her monthly payment remained the same for another 6 years instead of the remaining 4 years she had on her old Lexus. I just couldn't beleive that she was telling me she wasn't paying anything more for this new Lexus. Not related to this topic, but this same client hasn't saved a dime for retirement yet and she is 37. Utterly unbelievable.