Muzzleloading shotgun questions

[DocHunter]

I have a caplock doublebarrel muzzleloading shotgun with Damascus twists barrels that I want to try to use for turkey hunting this spring. According to information in the Dixie Gun Works catalog, this gun should be safe with up to about 82 grains of FFg black powder. I would like to use size 4, 5, or 6 shot and would like some advice about how to maximize the density of the shot pattern and the best loads to try for such a gun. Both barrels measure 0.714 inch. at the muzzle, which, I think, corresponds to cylinder bore. I would also like to use Shockey Gold black powder substitute from American Pioneer Powder instead of black powder for the benefit of less fouling and easier cleanup. This product is supposed to be able to be substituted in equal volumes for black powder, and I think develops less pressure than an equal volume of black powder and would therefore be a safe substitute if I am correct. I want to try some loads and pattern this gun as soon as the weather here permits, so any advice on loads would be appreciated.[

[multibeard]

I have a Navy Arms cylinder bored 12 ga double.

I was able to find a muzzle loading shot gun kit from Cabelas thanks to a very good customer service guy a few years ago. It had all the wads plus some hard plastic shot cups. It called for splitting the shot cups but I left them solid.

I got a good pattern out of them out to around 25 yards using #6 lead. Seeing my Navy arms had modern steel barrels I used the shot cup and shot equal measures of pyrodex and shot. If I remember right the shot cup held right around 100 gr of powder.

I tried to use regular reloading shot cups with the bottom cushion cut off but all I could find were shot cups that were split. If I tried to tape the shot cups I would end up with oblong patterns.

[DocHunter]

Originally posted by multibeard
I have a Navy Arms cylinder bored 12 ga double.

I was able to find a muzzle loading shot gun kit from Cabelas thanks to a very good customer service guy a few years ago. It had all the wads plus some hard plastic shot cups. It called for splitting the shot cups but I left them solid.

I got a good pattern out of them out to around 25 yards using #6 lead. Seeing my Navy arms had modern steel barrels I used the shot cup and shot equal measures of pyrodex and shot. If I remember right the shot cup held right around 100 gr of powder.

I tried to use regular reloading shot cups with the bottom cushion cut off but all I could find were shot cups that were split. If I tried to tape the shot cups I would end up with oblong patterns.

Thanks. I have plenty of wads and cards that the previous owner gave me with the shotgun. I was more interested in any advice about shot size and weight and any tips about maximizing pattern density and any safety advice for this type gun specifically for use on turkeys.

[Adam Helmer]

DocHunter,

Welcome to the Forum.

I have a single 12 gauge barrel that fits on my T/C caplock Renegade .54 caliber stock. I have used wads over powder and over shot and also plastic (modern) wads with some success. Your 82 grain 2F Black powder max load is about 3 Drams.

I set my powder measure for 80 grains af 2F BP and use the same measure for #6 shot for PA turkey and grouse. I use 2 felt wads over powder and one over shot. Since you say you have plenty of wads, I suggest you range test various loads to see what your gun likes. I have found I get tighter patterns using plastic wads such as 12 gauge Winchester AA wads over the powder and then an overshot felt wad.

Again, welcome to this site.

Adam

[ruger]

The first thing to do when shooting bp shotguns (smoothbores) is to forget about modern loads, i.e. shot size, quantity, and velocity.

Load development for the shotgun is, overall, easier than for a rifle shooting a patched ball, but attention to some principles will yield better results. Here, the versatility of the shotgun is evident, because every shot is essentially a custom handloaded one, the only difference being that it is done in the barrel, not in a shotgun shell.

First, the powder used should, generally, be of a coarser grade than for other black powder guns. Experience shows that the slower ignition and lower peak pressures of the coarse powders give more even and consistent patterns in most guns. Thus, FFg is considered best for 28, 24 and 20 gauge, and most people include 12 gauge in this group. In 11 and 10 gauge, Fg will give good results. FFFg powder can be used in the smaller gauges, but most experienced shooters feel the rapid, high pressures generated tend to 'blow' the pattern.

Second, the amount of powder needs to be balanced against the amount of shot being used. The sport of black powder shooting is rife with 'rules of thumb', many of which turn out to be not at all useful, but one used in black powder shotgunning has stood the test, and works very well in most shotguns. That rule is: Use the same volume of powder and shot. That is easily accomplished by using the same measure to load both shot and powder. A good way to approach this is to decide upon the amount of shot needed, say 1 1/8 oz. for rabbit hunting, set the measure for that, and use it also for the powder. If the game is passing ducks, maybe you want to increase the load to 1 1/2 oz. of shot. If so, apply the same method, and good patterns will result with that combination.

It is generally true that any change in ratio from equal volume loading will affect the pattern, and that can be used to custom tailor loads for different circumstances. Shooting more powder than shot will, in most guns, tend to open the pattern a bit, and if that doesn't create too many 'holes' in it, can be used to mimic the effect of less choke. Conversely, using less powder than shot, by volume, will tend to tighten the pattern, make it more dense.

Set a shorter range limit, about 5-10 yards shorter, depending upon the gun. This will in effect tighten the pattern, since there's less time for the shot to scatter, and more shot will strike the target. It will also mean that more energy is retained by the shot, since it will have slowed less....and energy is equal to weight X velocity.

Use one shot size larger than you would normally use with a modern shotgun in the same situation. The larger shot will retain energy better out to game range. This will, of course, mean fewer shot, but in most situations will not be a telling factor.

You can even mix #4's and #6's to make a duplex load.

I have a friend that uses #7 shot for his turkey load. All his wads are over-shot (o.s.) cards one size larger than bore size 11 ga cards in his 12 ga barrels. Instead of over-powder wad he uses 3 o.s. cards, presses a 4th o.s. cards about 1 1/2" to 2" into the barrel, adds the shot, and then adds "corn meal muffin mix" as a buffer. Tap the sides, add and o.s. card and seats the whole thing. At 25 yards his load is deadly on turkeys.

As for me, I use a 16 gauge trade gun for turkeys, load with 80 grs 2ff, 3 o.s. cards, 1 1/2 ozs. of #5 bismuth, bismuth buffer, 1 o.s. card. Prime with 4f and keep shots at 20-25 yds. I use bismuth because it is harder than lead and I don't worry about fliers due to the shot scrapping the barrel and loosing their shape. A nickel plated shot would probably work but I didn't have any when I started patterning my loads.

I had better stop now and catch my breath!!

[Catfish]

I used to use the Same wads I used to load my trap loads with and just put a over the shot wad in last.