How do you decide what to charge?

[GoodOlBoy]

I mostly do basic gunsmithing work, just because I enjoy doing it. The problem is there are NO other gunsmiths in my area for probably 150 miles around. I am starting to get more and more buddies, of buddies, of friends, who knew somebody I had done some work for dropping guns off with me. An example?

Last year I fixed problems, or did custome work on about nine guns TOTAL. This week I have had three dropped off, and I have already done basic work or cleanup, or look at, etc on another dozen this year so far.

SOOOO what do I charge? I do it mostly because I enjoy it, but I am running out of free time since I charge little to nothing. 99% of these guys throw in a box of shells, buy me lunch, etc. But I have to do something to either start making my time pay some bills, or slow the flow somewhat or something. I mean sheesh! Its not like I do custom from scratch work. I fit parts, fit off the shelf stocks, replace springs, sights, etc. You know BASIC stuff. (Stuff I can't believe these people can't figure out themselves) It isn't like I am offering world class service here.

Anyway just curious since I know some of the folks on here have run or do run shops.

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[Aim to maim]

I certainly would not suggest that you continue to contribute your time and skill out of the goodness of your heart, but recommend you first give consideration to the ramifications of charging for your services. Once you accept payment, it can be argued that you are in the business of gunsmithing. The first time something you've worked on blows up in the owner's face, his fault, your fault, nobody's fault, you are facing at least the potential of a ruinous lawsuit. It's a shame, but we live in a very litigious society. Whatever else may be said of lawyers, they have to eat, too, and some of them are always hungry.

[BILLY D.]

GOB

Brownells has a chart on suggested prices for repairs etc in their catalog.

Some are outrageous most are fair.

Once you start accepting money favors and gratuities it's a business and subject to all the +'s and -'s of such a venture, as mentioned above .

Watch your P's and Q's and CYA.

Best wishes, Bill

[Jack]

I, too, think that once you begin to charge a fee, you're running a business. And since you're fixing guns, not lawnmowers, you may need an FFL.
And other things to think about.... taxes? zoning? insurance? etc.

[skeet]

What those other guys said. First you need at least a FFL for gunsmithing. BTDT. 2nd you definitely have to have some insurance. I carried a million bucks worth. It really wasn't enough. Been a few years back and it cost in the vicinity of 5 G's for the insurance. Third to get a FFL you need to have a business license and for a gunsmith not necessarily a store front but an out building or whatever. And Zoning for the business so that the FFL can be issued. All this is a PIA to get started with and then you have to have supplies parts some specialized tools(write offs my friend) and then you don't really want to make a big profit(yeah)..then you'll want to carry some reloading supplies and maybe reloaders and the next thing ya know ya got a business that takes an awful lot of time. My gun business almost put me out of the fishing and crabbing business. And come hunting season...they are always at your place. Believe me. For 15 yrs running on the night before deer and goose seasons I was in my shop till at least midnight. Now having said all that...HAVE FUN You'll learn a lot. OH and get 2 Books...Gunsmith Kinks and Gunsmith Kinks II. Lot to learn from those books and any other firearm assembly disassembly books will be needed. Oh and for good profits...learn how to rust blue. Don't need all that dangerous chemicals and pretty easy to do. When ya do it right it'll pop their eyes out and make 'em dig in their pockets In 1990 I charged 200 bucks and up for a rust blue job.

[BILLY D.]

skeet

Had to laugh at your comment about the night before deer season and customers.

With my smith it started about a week before season and of course they all wanted their guns back.......tomorrow. They had great expectations. My smith always told them they can expect in one hand and spit in the other hand and see which one fills up first as he showed them racks of rifles and shotguns awaiting repairs. You could see the oops on their faces.

I used to work for him in the fall as a receptionist, cleaning specialist, bore sighter and scope installer and some other soft jobs that I could handle. He very seldom ever came out of the shop area as it was enclosed. Otherwise he would have to spend 75% of his time BS ing with customers and customers were not allowed in the shop area. Liability.

Last year he got fried on smithing closed up shop and got a job in the "Oil Patch". Yes, please don't tell my folks I work in the oil patch, they think I'm a piano tuner in a whore house.

Best wishes, Bill

[Adam Helmer]

GOB,

I ran a shop in Beaumont in the late 1960s while I was in college and my FFL cost me $1.00 per year as I recall. I had to get a business license from the city and a sales tax ID number from the state. I forgot to submit the sales tax one quarter and a week later a fellow was at my front door to get the form, sales tax money and levied a $5.00 fine as a late charge.

It got to be too much to run a shop and be a full-time college student attending school year-round. People showed up at all hours with a gun for me to "look at" and fix or to appraise a gun to determine if it was a "good buy."

As for the price to charge, that puts you "In the business" and you may be opening a big problem area you do not need. Accepting a donation may CYA, and mebbe not. I still appraise guns and do some repairs. My appraisal fee is $50.00 flat fee or $50.00 per hour, whichever is more. I provide written documentation and copy pages out of the book of gun values to support the appraisals. For repairs, I accept a donation and mostly just replace parts or clean guns. I do not stone triggers, work on safties or stuff that is dangerous to myself liability wise.

Hope this helps.

Adam

[GoodOlBoy]

Alot of food for thought there. One of the "buddies" brought me a Inland M1 Carbine that is in BEAUTIFUL shape to put a spring kit in, and give it just a general cleaning (gun was his fathers in Korea, it hasn't been fired or oiled in about 30 years, and it is still a gun I want to drool over). In trade for the work he gave me a Ted (or Tad maybe?) Williams model 100 30-30Win Sears Roebuck & Co that his wife wanted out of the house because he hasn't used it in 35+ years. Other than some spots of rust that have removed some blueing on the reciever and lever the rest of the gun looks like it just came out of the box. . . . . SOOO another one for the collection.

Sigh. I don't really want to get into the FFL, Insurance, etc etc. So I guess I will just have to start telling people I am busy more often, or make them come up with really good trades. Wish I could afford to turn it into a side buisness, but I just don't think I have the cash flow right now to do so. (And yet if I did I probably would have the cash flow. Danged if ya do danged if ya don't type thing.)

Thanks for the advice guys.

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

When i started doing that stuff was the 60's. Things were a lot different then. You can make quite a bit of money doing the work. If it is work that won't affect the function of the gun...do it and make 'em pay for it. Work done for nothing is worth exactly that to the receipient. So charge according to the value YOU perceive. Let the BATF come to you and tell ya you have to have a license. They will issue you one then.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thats the problem Skeet, Some of the things I consider pretty minor are fitted parts in 1911s that technically do affect the gun function. For some reason I have gotten a rep as being able to fix a problem 1911 (probably because I use ALOT of semi-drop in milspec parts to repair them) and some of these guys are comming outa the woodwork. It slowed a GREAT deal when I turned a half dozen of them away that wanted me to cut frames for ramped barrels and I told them not only no but H@$! NO! I don't mind fitting triggers, fitting competition barrels, etc on them. And alot of what I am being brought is JUST plain broke guns, or guns that need spring kits (and usually a ton of cleaning).

Still I hate turning folks away that I can help, and even though I enjoy the cash (anjoy it alot if/when I get any) I am a horse trader at heart.

Probably doesn't help that most of them find out I am a computer tech and can fix their pc problems as well. Already had a guy bring me a rifle, and a laptop to look at at the same time. . . . .

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

There is an old adage that you have to remember. TIME IS MONEY. At the very least when doing computers charge at least 20 bucks an hour. I am a horse trader myself. I got in trouble by taking guns etc on trade myself. Not trouble..just kinda stupid to take things that I didn't need. When I moved here to Wyoming I brought 116(IIRC) 22 rifles. The direct result of horse trading. Of course I only kept Winchester Remington and Marlin rifles The worthwhile ones. Only have about 10 left now. Made good money on 'em. If you horse trade time for guns..never take single shot shotguns..or junk guns of any kind. Not worth doing that. Now as far as working on guns..never make light triggers..especially on autos. I'm saying those words because it seems to me ya just haveta do that work on guns you like. Luck to ya man. Seriously consider getting the licenses you might need. To get the best prices on stuff ya need a business license at the least.

[skeet]

Originally posted by BILLY D.
skeet

Had to laugh at your comment about the night before deer season and customers.

With my smith it started about a week before season and of course they all wanted their guns back.......tomorrow. They had great expectations.

Best wishes, Bill

Bill it was crazy. They knew for months the day was acoming. But no... They hadda wait till it was too late. Not being an idiot..but some just had to pay a little more...and actually expected to. I loved the ones that brought me their gun to have a scope mounted and sighted a month before the season...only to wait till 0 dark 30 to pick it up for the opener. Sheesh...without even checking the sighting they went hunting. One guy did this 3 yrs in a row. Worst part was he always killed his deer. usually 5 deer in the season... usually with that many shots. I shoulda sighted it off a yard or so

I had a very small shop for many years. I got a closeout on waterfowl ammo before our goose season one year. I got 1070 cases(20 box) of waterfowl loads. Couldn't hardly get into my shop. Advertised in the Sunday paper in Baltimore. Sold them all in 3 days for all intents and purposes. Only made 1 1/2 bucks a box but I got them on consignment...so I guess I did alright. One of the things that made me add on to my shop. I needed more room. But the business did pay for it. I promptly filled up that extra space too.

[skeet]

Check this out

140241050493 on ebay

[GoodOlBoy]

DOH, gotta wait until payday (just ordered gun parts and computer parts for people who have not paid for them as of yet)

Will keep an eye on it though,

Thanks Skeet

And I will have you know I like single shot shotguns. But I do see the point. IF I were ever gonna take any they would absolutely have to be H&Rs in beautiful shape, and even then the value is pretty darned loowwww on them.

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

That's another thing. Never order parts of anything you need to repair without at leat the cost of the parts in advance. I know...I know these are all people ya know...but it is a very bad business practice. I did it some and only got stiffed once but that was enough. Twice as bad with computers.. They go out of date so fast. guns don't but it might be years till ya need the part that you paid for all those years ago.