You have GOT to be kidding me...

Packer Backer · #1 09-27-2010, 01:54 PM

I recently cut open a shot shell to see what the steel looks like from this particular brand....... I was shocked to find the ugliest hodge-podge of steel shot I have ever seen. The shot was NOT round, but various shapes with gross imperfections. I've seen lead shot that was more consistent looking. What's worse is that the shot was different sizes! It looked like it ranged in size from BB to #4.

See attached......this is from a Winchester XPERT steel, 3.5", #2

I'm pretty disgusted by this.... I've tried to contact Winchester, but good luck trying to find a phone number.

kt · #2 09-28-2010, 10:50 PM

Yes, i do believe with non tox you do pay for what you get. as soon as you said you cut open a shotshell i started thinking xpert. we did the same thing when they first came out after a few canadas took bb's in the face at 20yds and didnt die on spot. some was round some looking like welders slag drippings. supposedly since then they upped the velocity and now it is super xpert or something. i look at it like this if some steel is 21 a box and some is 11 for the same shell. something is a miss. and another thing yes steel does kill just fine, you dont need two dollar bismuth/tung/hevi/matrix. i prefer federal premium. black cloud is nice, nothing wrong with the higher priced win supremes. oh and remington sportsman steel sucks just as bad as xperts. good luck killing. try email for winchester?

Mr. 16 gauge · #3 10-01-2010, 04:11 PM

Found some Remington "sportsman" steel waterfowl loads a few years back that had just fallen out of someone's pocket (I assume....the brass was still nice and shiny!) while I was pulling my boat over the dike. I took them home (IIRC, there were 3 or 4 shells) and cut 'em open.

I found pretty much the same thing that you found.....shot of various "sizes" (I hesitate to call them sizes, as not a one was round!), the pellets themselves had rust on them, and the powder was damp (remember, these were found on a dike with shiny brass).
The pellets looked like remnants swept off the floor. I don't know why people feel they are getting a 'bargain' by buying this crap, but I wonder how many of these rounds cripple, instead of kill, their intended targets as opposed to high priced (or higher quality) steel loads.
After several years of poor performance, I decided to reload my own steel shotshells, but he year prior to that I tried some Winchester Supreme steel shotshells.....a little more pricey, to be sure, but they did KILL the ducks I shot at instead of just crippling them.

fabsroman · #4 10-02-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kt

Yes, i do believe with non tox you do pay for what you get. as soon as you said you cut open a shotshell i started thinking xpert. we did the same thing when they first came out after a few canadas took bb's in the face at 20yds and didnt die on spot. some was round some looking like welders slag drippings. supposedly since then they upped the velocity and now it is super xpert or something. i look at it like this if some steel is 21 a box and some is 11 for the same shell. something is a miss. and another thing yes steel does kill just fine, you dont need two dollar bismuth/tung/hevi/matrix. i prefer federal premium. black cloud is nice, nothing wrong with the higher priced win supremes. oh and remington sportsman steel sucks just as bad as xperts. good luck killing. try email for winchester?

I couldn't even kill cripples with the Remington Sportsman steel loads. That stuff is pure crap.

Yeah, steel works if you get the birds in really close. If not, good luck using steel.

kt · #5 10-03-2010, 11:01 AM

not that is matters for killing purposes. but i also noted when you pour xpert steel in your hand it is really dirty stuff. not sure what thats about. sportsman steel? i was snoozing one day in the blind and heard a splash. when i looked up there was a beautiful sprig swimming in the decoys. we dont see many of them. 3 shots later he was headed for all points east. not sure i can blame the shells for the duck fever on that one.
kt

Mr. 16 gauge · #6 10-04-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Yeah, steel works if you get the birds in really close. If not, good luck using steel.

Actually, I don't know what you mean by 'really close', but I've done O.K. with handloads out to 40 yards and killed birds dead. I've also had some close in stuff that was crippled by bismuth and hevishot.
I think that the key to killing birds with steel is A.) get the fastest load you can B.) drop your payloads a bit and C.) open up your chokes a bit.

A should be obvious; B & C I've found to be true while patterning....we've all heard how a full choke will "blow" a pattern of steel shot. Well, it's true with modified chokes and heavy payloads of steel as well. With some experimentation, I've found that the best combination (for me) is a 1 oz load of #3 steel and a modified choke. If I increase the payload, the pattern goes all to hell. Also, my reloads chronyed out at 1480-1500 fps. They've dropped all manner of ducks out to 40 yards (dead) consistently, and that's as far as I think anyone should be shooting at waterfowl anyway.

.....but then again, I pay attention to what I'm putting in my hulls: weigh each powder and pellet charge, make sure the pellets are ROUND and of UNIFORM size, ect., ect, ect.........