anyone have any m16/ar variant questions?

Rocky_Raccoon · #1 10-28-2010, 11:37 AM

Hey as most of you know I'm fresh out of the corps. I served as infantry and did a stent as a rifle range instructor, or as marines know us "range Nazi". So if anyone has questions about the rifle or KD course of fire just post and ill do best to answer any of your questions.

Adam Helmer · #2 10-28-2010, 04:14 PM

Rocky,

What do you know to be the maximum effective range of the M16?

How does that compare to the M14?

Which arm do you prefer? What do the grunts prefer?

Adam

Gil Martin · #3 10-28-2010, 07:22 PM

Our gun club has 10 high power DCM rifle matches every year and I run them. We use reduced targets and shoot at 100 yards. Most of the shooters use ARs with a sprinkling of M1As and M1 Garands. At 100 yards, the ARs turn in the highest scores. We have a few High Masters that shoot 495 out of a possible 500 with ARs. I like the M1 Garand and 1903 Springfield and shoot them, but have never managed to beat the ARs.

If we went out to 600 yards, it might be a different story. All the best...
Gil

Rocky_Raccoon · #4 10-28-2010, 08:53 PM

Well the marine corps preaches max effective range on a point Target (man sized) is 550m and max effective on area Target (group of people) is 800m. You must put into consideration irons and ball ammo and our KD is 500 with silhouette tgts, hitting center chest 10 times out of 10. They also say m14 service grade is 500m but when you get into match grade on both rifles your out into corealus effect. What do I prefer... well I'm a firm believer in the big bullet theory. So id like to say m14; however in combat I liked my lightweight m4 and I think most agree. Plus followup are much quicker on the 5.56 side of the house. I am partial to the m4 except the fact that we use grounding bullets? The 6.5 grendel maybe the answer.

Rocky_Raccoon · #5 10-28-2010, 08:57 PM

We did have an occasional m1 garrand shoot, or m40 shoot just for fun....but we didn't go much past 600m. They are loads of fun though

Adam Helmer · #6 11-02-2010, 01:56 PM

Gil,

Are the high scoring AR shooters better riflemen than the Garand and M1A shooters? A High Master with a "tricked out" AR will surely beat a Marksman or Sharpshooter with a "Rack" CMP Garand or M1A.

I have read reports of soldiers in Iraq who are unimpressed with M4 results in the wide open spaces against the Bad Guys who are sometimes using 8mm Mausers or .303 British rifles. Be that as it may, in the long open spaces of Iraq or Afganistan, I would prefer a 150 grain spitzer against a 55 grain 5.56mm projectile, even if the Army says the 5.56 is effective to 580 meters. Really?

Adam

Gil Martin · #7 11-02-2010, 08:27 PM

As you probably know DCM matches are Approved NRA Tournaments and the rifles used have to conform to specific standards. Not sure what you mean by a tricked out AR. There are some minor modifications that are permitted for M1s, M1As and ARs, but the rifles start out on a level playing field. The High Masters at our matches often shoot rifles other than an AR. However, the results are the same in that the ARs usually turn in the highest scores. If you like, I can send you the score sheets for the last ten years for review. Have you ever shot the 100 yard DCM match with an AR, or even own an AR? All the best...
Gil

Rocky_Raccoon · #8 11-02-2010, 08:54 PM

Adam, actually we use a 62 grain "green tip" but most of m4 s are getting 77grain sierra 'open tip' match because as we all know hollow points are against Geneva convention. They fly good but you must also consider we also have 240 gulf and saw machineguns with us and most squads also have dm rifles.(5.56) . There are no perfect assault weapons. Each has pro and cons and you just have to weigh it against your circumstances

Adam Helmer · #9 11-04-2010, 09:56 AM

Gil,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have an AR, three in fact and I fired one in a DCM Match. I have fired many DCM Matches and won seven monthly matches in a row; you, no doubt, observed my trophies on the mantle during your past visits.

We averaged 35-40 competitors at the DCM Matches and several individuals were military personnel, in uniform, using ARs. Yes, they placed well, but never beat my Garand and issue Ball ammunition. How many matches have you fired?

Adam

Gil Martin · #10 11-04-2010, 06:48 PM

Since I run the matches I cannot shot in them. However, I have fired in a number of them and have my certificates to prove it. I can tell you that in our matches, an M1 Garand or M1A has never beaten the ARs. The best shooters use ARs and rack up lower scores when shooting anything else. All the best...
Gil