LEE dies and Speer bullets?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I bought a set of LEE dies for my .35 Remington last summer, and I'm just getting around to making up some test loads.....I was reading the directions and WTF! They say that I can't use Speer bullets with the LEE die.....I've used LEE dies almost exclusively, and loaded a lot of Speer bullets with them, so what the hell is this all about?

[Joe Boleo]

Not sure why Lee would say to avoid Speer bullets when using their dies. You might call Lee for some clarity. Failing that, I would say to either replace the Lee dies or the Speer bullets. I often see other brands of excellent used dies at one gun shop for very little money. Take care...
Joe

[Gil Martin]

It does not sound right. All the best...
Gil

[skeet]

Seems as though the two companies are in a P***ing contest. Speer is part of the company that owns RCBS also. Lee said using the factory crimp die in rifles improved accuracy..Speer disagreed saying it hurt accuracy..Who knows the truth? But i won't use the crimp die on my accuracy loads in rifles. I do crimp the 223s I use in my ARs though...and of course i use both types of crimps in handguns...Or that is what it seems the whole thing is about..IIRC

[PJgunner]

I see no reason why you couldn't use those Speer bullets witht he Lee dies. Come to think of it, Lee says to not use CCI primers (also part of ATK) in some of their equipment. RCBS also says to not use CCI primers in theeir tools but they work just fine. Like somebody said, they're in a urinating match.
Paul B.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Thanks guys, for all the info.....I went ahead and loaded up the test rounds (Speer 220 grain FP) and they look O.K. and don't appear to have any issues.

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

I have about 3 or 4 sets of Lee dies, 25+ of RCBS and 5 or 6 Lyman dies. I never saw the "no Speer bullet" caution with Lee dies. A bullet sized .308" is .308" despite who made the bullet. Eh, wot?

I am sure I loaded Speer bullets using Lee dies and never had a problem. If you get any data/facts about Speer bullets, please let us hear it.

Adam

[Jack]

As I recall, when Lee introduced the factory crimp die, Lee ran some ads saying that factory ammo was crimped, and doing so with Lee's new die on all your loads would increase accuracy.
Speer ran some counter ads suggesting that the Lee factory crimp die shouldn't be used with bullets without cannelures, as the factory crimp die would deform the bullets, reducing accuracy.
Which is true, I can't say, but I think that's the source of the watering contest.

[Adam Helmer]

Jack,

As always, you make sense. The only jacketed bullets I crimp are for the .30/30 and .444 Marlin and the bullets have cannelures. I read Richard Lee's discourse on "Why crimping all bullets is best" BS. I did not buy into his drivel.

Adam

[Jack]

Adam, I do about the same- crimp for tube magazines and handguns, but not most centerfire cartridges. I've never seen a rationale for crimping bottleneck type centerfire cartridges- I suppose if they were very heavy recoil/dangerous game type loads, it might make sense to crimp.
I have a Lee factory crimp die for my 375 Winchester, and I use it and like it - after I took it apart and polished the toolmarks off it so it would work.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I've never seen a rationale for crimping bottleneck type centerfire cartridges

I will crimp the loads that I use in my M1A and AR15....I've found that with all the slam banging around, the rounds towards the bottom of the clip can move deeper into the case. I only load bullets with a cannelure for such tasks, and crimp where the cannelure is.

As for the original question: I was making up some test loads for my .223 and checked out the directions from LEE on these dies (these are LEE RGB dies...the inexpensive set). There is a small disclaimer there that says that "some" Speer bullets shouldn't be used with "some" LEE dies, per Speer (i.e. Speer says that, not LEE)......apparently the P***** match has gotten more frenzied since I bought these dies (about 15 years ago?)

[Jack]

Mr 16 Gauge- good point!
I also crimp (lightly) 30-06 ammo used in the M-1 Garand, for the same reasons you do. I'd forgotten about that. . .

[dovehunter]

Originally Posted by PJgunner

I see no reason why you couldn't use those Speer bullets witht he Lee dies. Come to think of it, Lee says to not use CCI primers (also part of ATK) in some of their equipment. RCBS also says to not use CCI primers in theeir tools but they work just fine. Like somebody said, they're in a urinating match.
Paul B.

I've never seen anything in any LEE literature saying not to use CCI primers. In fact, the instructions (and the box) that came with my AUTOPRIME II said to use only CCI or Winchester primers. I pretty much use only CCI primers anyway so that hasn't been a problem, but I always wondered about it.

[Jack]

The original Autoprime from Lee was the one that said not to use CCI primers. Some day I might listen. .
The Autoprime II has been redesigned, I suppose so it's safe to use with CCI primers.

[res45]

There has been spats going on between Lee,Federal,RCBS,Speer etc. for years over all sorts of issues. Needless to say I've use everyone stuff with everyone else's stuff for years and never had any issues.

I've used an original Lee hand priming tool for over 20 years just bought a new older model a couple years ago so I have one for both L & S primers,I've used everyone's primer in them,granted the Federals are softer but I've had no problems. I've also crimped bullets with and without cannelures of all brands of bullets with the Lee FDC with no ill effects,some of my most accurate ammo is produced with non cannelure bullets and the Lee FDC.