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91 yr old war criminal arrested
I don't know how I feel about this news item. Seems back in WWII there was a young soldier that happened to be born in the wrong Country. They put him to work as a guard at (sad) jewish camp. I am sure he could of just as well been made a guard at some military base or sent to the trenches..But is was his job....now the years have passed and he had good job in an Auto plant. Retired, etc..but someone found out what he had to do during the war. They arrested this 91 yr old man for war crimes. I don't know how I feel about that. Sure it is sad what they did back then but come on, 91? Give him 5 years prison. Life to me.. We on the other hand have criminals in our Gov now, wall st etc..some of these might not have pulled the triggers but did in fact cause a few to do so when they lost everything..jobs, money, homes, family..and now they have their millions and are still free..I am sure this 91 yr old has had time to think of what they were doing and has talked to God about it... I just dont think at his age, arrest isn't the cure. What do you all think?
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mugrump |
#2
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Gonna raise a rant, but I do not see that a lockup at 91 will serve any useful point. Guy has lived with this all his life.
Dan
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Lifes not meant to be a journey to the grave with the intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thouroughly used up, totally wore out,loudly proclaiming.... WOW.....WHAT A RIDE....... |
#3
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It depends
I wonder when the Soviets will put their soldiers on trial for the war crimes they committed in Eastern Europe during and after WWII. Looks like the victors write the history and the rules. There are a lot of war criminals on the winning side that will never be tried.
The 91 year old former camp guard was at the bottom of the food chain. He did what he was told or he would have been in the camp he was guarding. Take care... Joe |
#4
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Some just will not let history be consigned to the history books. They insist on reliving it. The Germans have become hyper-sensitive over the Nazi issue. I deplore the depredations of that regime too, but this guy was a very small cog in that machine. One of Germany's post-war leaders, Kurt Waldheim, was a Nazi - other than being 'persona non-grata' regarding coming to the US, he got along well......
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"A bold spirit embiggens the smallest man!" Jebediah Springfield |
#5
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Sorry, but I disagree with most of the posts here.
This story originally broke years ago, as the man in question (Demanjuk (sp?)) lived in the town right next to me ....literally. He is not accused of 'just being a guard'....he is accused of crimes against humanity, including torture and MURDER!!! Lasts time I heard, there was no statute of limitations on murder. ...and, if it was YOUR family members who were murdered, wouldn't you want justice for their killer(s)? Would you let them get away with it, just because they were 'old', or 'just in the wrong place at the wrong time'? I don't buy into the idea that they "had to do it, or else they would face the same treatment"....there were plenty of guards in camps that weren't sadists and murders. Just because this individual managed to hide it so well for all these years doesn't mean he should get a free pass. Small cog in the machine? Maybe so, but that 'small cog' kept all the big cogs moving.... It's unfortunate that the U.S. must share the blame in some of this.....look into Japan's unit 731 in Manchuria and see the atrocities that they committed in the name of 'scientific research' (if you can stomach it....I work in an O.R. and after seeing/reading some of the things these animals did, I thought I was going to barf.....I had to quit reading half way through). Not only did they commit their atrocities on (primarily) Chinese citizens, but American POWs as well....and our country gave them a 'free pass' in order to get a look at the 'data' because of the cold war. Many of these sadists (er....excuse me, researchers) went on to become prominent politicians, presidents of Universities, heads of industry, ect.....and NONE of them EVER admitted to their crimes. And Japan, as a nation, has never acknowledged the fact that Unit 731 ever existed. Should we just give them a free pass? After all, they are all old as well..... Oh, and by the way: Unit 731 also experimented with "balloon bombs" to try and spread biological and chemical weapons over the United States. Little know fact: about 200 of these bombs reached the U.S., and one killed 7 people, including a woman who was 8 months pregnant. ....but let's just give them a free pass; after all, the war was over 60 years ago, and these were just civilians that they made war on.... I've seen other posts on here with re: to crime, criminals 'getting away with murder' because of legal issues filed by the ACLU, ect. You guys get pretty pissed off when you feel that justice is stymied. Yet here you are, doing the same thing because the guy is "old" and "the war was a long time ago". The smell of hypocrisy is rather rank today....................
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If your dog thinks that your the greatest, don't go seeking a second opinion! |
#6
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2 thumbs up to Mr 16. I have to agree with him.. murder is murder. If they were doing these things because they wanted to... then Adobe wall 'em. We should do the same to some of our politicians that do thing to us instead of for us
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin |
#7
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skeeter,
There was a program on TV last week about this individual. Several people stated the WWII ID card on this guy was a Soviet forgery. It was stated this guy was a Cold War victim of Soviet disinformation eagerly pursued by the U.S. If the program comes to a station near you, view it and draw your own conclusions. Adam
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Adam Helmer |
#8
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Quote:
I've seen that program..Why would the Ruskies make him a fake ID card. Never explained that one fully..
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin |
#9
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Didn't we round up Japanese civilians and put them behind fences. Granted, nothing like the German camps or the way the Japanese treated POWs. Then, you have to keep in mind that the history of wars is usually written by the victors. Got into it on another chatboard with a Canadian that felt Canada did more in WWII than the US. I guess that is how a Canadian would view it through Canadian eyes. Finally, I do think the guy was a small cog in a really big machine. If a soldier is given an order to kill civilians, or even torture them, what is that soldier to do. Just look at the US and waterboarding. Let's not even get into the crap that happens at Guantanomo. Not that I completely disagree with it, but just because we might have to court martial a lot more Americans and send the President to prison too. We happen to be the "good guys" in WWII because we won.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better. |
#10
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Quote:
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin |
#11
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Somebody suggested that he could have just said no when he was ordered to do these things. Well then, the US could have just said NO to Britain as far as bombing Dresden is concerned. Do I agree with dropping two atomic bombs on Japan? Yep, but that is because I am viewing it as an American. Heck, I think we should drop a couple in the Middle East and give them a lot more to worry about than their petty little squables. It will save a ton of American lives and a ton of American money. We have nukes to spare, so we really don't have to replace them. Now, if you want to look at WWII and say that this German was a menace or that specific Japanese soldier was a menace, some 60+ years later, I have an issue with it. Almost have an issue with trying any of the soldiers except for the ones on high. A lot of the high brass from Japan and Germany, including the Emperor of Japan, should have been hanged. Yet, the Emperor was spared. Last but not least, STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!!!!!!!! I never once said we should apologize for anything that we did. My examples were to show that the US isn't of clean hands either, and we shouldn't be going around 60+ years later and trying to sentence 90+ year old men to death for things they did during a filthy, disgusting war. By the way, I also figured you would be the first one to respond. Seems like anything that looks like it might lean left draws you out right away. Kind of like the extreme lefties on the cycling board I visit. In there, anything that barely leans right draws them out. Like I say to them, you my friend, are the problem we have in this country and why the country is so divided. I bet there isn't one single point that you would concede to the left. Me, I sit somewhere in the middle and get crap on both boards. Luckily, I have a thick skin.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better. |
#12
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin |
#13
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STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. When you can show me where I said we should APOLOGIZE for dropping the bombs on Japan and where I said we should APOLOGIZE for Dresden, then I will APOLOGIZE to you. Until then, you can STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I also don't mind breaking eggs. Have no issue with any torture that led to Osama Bin Laden, etc. In hindsight we can sit here and Monday morning quarterback the entire freaking war. While it was going down, our only job was to kill more of them than they killed of us. I think Patton had a great quote regarding that. Kind of like sitting here 60+ years later and wanting to sentence this 90 year old man for war crimes that he may have committed. Jesus, who is still alive to testify against him and how can they actually pick him out of a lineup.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better. |
#14
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A couple of factual corrections. . .
" We talk of the killing of 6 millions civilians in the death camps in Europe(contrary to popular belief they were not all Jews)" The actual total of people killed in the Holocaust is a little difficult to pin down. Most experts put the figure at around 13 million. Six million of them were Jews. The rest were political opponents of Hitler, people the 3rd Reich considered 'mentally defective', Communists, clergy, homosexuals, Gypsys, Russian POW's, etc. Also, we did bomb Tokyo during the latter stages of WW2- quite extensively. Just not with nukes. The firebombing campaign burned out about 3/4 of Tokyo, and the total casualties from all the Tokyo bombing raids are thought to be higher than either of the A bombs dropped. Again, exact numbers are a bit difficult to come by.
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“May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.” Dwight D. Eisenhower "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter" George Washington Jack@huntchat.com |
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Can you imagine what the loss of our servicmen would have been had we made an invasion of the Japense homeland? This alone justifies what we did for me.
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VFW Life Member, NRA Life Member, Wisconsin Conservation Warden Assoc. Life Member, Wisconsin Waterfowl Assoc. Life Member |
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