Pa horn regulation change

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Ok, our PGC has helped some with the horn regulation change. We in the western area of Pa have gone by the 4pt on one side rule. We have some hefty 6pt bucks around with massive horn spread but will never be legal unless fall under those youth hunts etc etc..my main question now since they made this rule a 3pt up counts as legal...this is not counting the eye spike as a point. If the deer only has 2 main points and the eye spike, it is not a legal buck...all is fine with that too but when does the eye spike not become an eye spike and is counted as one of the 3 up points. Most eye spikes are close to the knobby part at the base but I do have horns from the past that this horn is a good 8" up from this knob...so again, and is not listed in the rule book as how far up from the base it goes...would this be a call from one of the wardens in the field? (yes we have some that flash the badge thing)...if someone would know this...thanks.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

one thing to add to this post. Our local tv station had said hunters in Pa do not need to display their hunting license on their back. False information. They have talked about this law when came out with the CID# system but as for now it is not the law. Must still be displayed on back. Exception to this is if you wear a backpack, you must move license to the backpack so it is visable....Also I sure hope people read the rule books. Area 2A is buck only the first week of the season. Already the PGC said they are sure they will make a killing in fines because people just do not read the rule books...I sure hope not.

[Adam Helmer]

skeeter,

I suggest you ASK the PGC for a "Point" definition BEFORE you pull the trigger! SPECIFICALLY ask Carl Roe about how to COUNT Eye Spikes and print out his reply.

As for PA Back Tags: Yes, Governor Corbett signed the repeal, BUT it will be 60 DAYS BEFORE the Old Back Tag Law dies! Carry a back tag this deer season and be legal.

Adam

[skeet]

You know Pa has some really weird laws The auto loader rule?? I always could pump a gun faster than an auto.. Back tags. Heck even Md did away with that one years ago. Here in Wy we do have to put a tag on the deer after bagging it up.. Points on an antler?? heck even a spike is legal in most places. BTW even if you get an answer to the question of points on an antler..the game warden on the ground will usually make the decision..then you have to prove him wrong in court.. Hard thing to do in most jurisdictions. Just like a speeding ticket. really hard to beat a cop in court...or a game warden.. BTW do you all have part time wardens or whatever you call them?? I call 'em a guy looking to make a rep. Something like a federal GW

[skeeter@ccia.com]

we have the main game warden assigned to each district then there are a bunch of deputy wardens..those deputys are the ones we have most of the problems with and I am not sure they even get paid. Not all but most of them do flash the badge thing. Example, 2 of us hunting deep in the woods. We assign a point back there and wait for the other at that point prior to walking out. After hrs, guns unloaded, long hike out only to find deputy saying we were hunting kind of late..Said..No sir. He asked do you know what time it is?..Yes,then told him. Then he said well then you were hunting after hours. We said..No sir, nothing in the books say we have to be out of the woods by end of shooting hours. Just have to have gun unloaded and not be hunting after shooting hours. He then asked well then what are shooting hours. 5:01. and guns unloaded then, just long walk out.(I stress to everyone, you better know your shooting hours..for this reason) ..then he said we have to be out by then. We told him where in rule book does it say you are not alowed to walk into the woods in morning before legal shooting hours and if we wanted, we could sit back there all night just as long as we are not hunting and same rule applies for walking out.This is just one example. Another better one is guy overdressed due to cold morning. While on his stand, took off his orange coat, hung it on limb next to him, slipped out of heavy sweatshirt, put orange coat back on...and did all of this with his orange hat still on..etc..but warden seen him and wrote him up for not wearing his 250sq in of orange. They went to court and even the judge asked the warden how he could get out of a sweatshirt under his coat without removing the coat first..guy won..Fish warden going to fine a dad for using his sons fishing pole without a license. The kid was only 2yrs old. The pole a play plastic one with yarn for a string along with those big plastic hooks you use to pick up plastic fish...this was tionesta pa at the steel bridge and story ended when dad tossed the deputy off the bridge ..only about 3' to the water...then dad got in car and left...Allegheny co. deputy wardens are the worse. Alleg Co only has 1 state game land and the deputy lives at border of game lands..he lays for you and will fine you for walking wrong...Most real gamewardens are great people though..Know a few and glad they have the job. I still would like to know if Adam H has problems with posted hunting club lands in his area. Few years ago finding a bear hunting spot from central pa to the east border was hard to do..They are just now starting to buy up farms and woods in my area..If you don't belong to the expensive hunting club, hard to find an area to hunt.

[petey]

Here's the rule as it's written up (see link). You're correct in saying it doesn't specify how far from the base, but a tine is a tine.. Your first and 2nd point is the G2 and G3, 3rd would be your main beam....G1's or brow tines are not counted in WMU's 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B & 2D. My guess is a brow tine is not 8" from the base as you describe. Most all whiteails horn's curve toward their nose, so a "tine" as described in their document below would be the first point on or after that curvature of the main beam. Seems pretty simple to me, but as with most laws written by our PGC, they are open to interpretation by the arresting WCO. I think it's written in plain English and easy to understand. If the buck looks questionable...let him walk...plain and simple. Why risk it? I sure wouldn't and I let those little guys walk besides the point. (on public ground)

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...strictions_pdf

Also to the point of no place to hunt...I call BS as PA is a state with about the most public hunting area's available per state size...I'm counting roughly 4 million acres that's open to you, me and anyone else. Surely you can find a place? And I know for a fact there's a ton in Adam's area, as I've hunted on state land this year out there.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...=617662&mode=2

[Adam Helmer]

skeeter,

A few clubs lease farms and woods for their club exclusive use. Further downstate there are several huge private hunting clubs with a big manor house, house staff, etc. Fortunately, as Petey posted, we have lots of state game land and 400,000+/- acres of state forest land hereabouts.

Adam

[skeeter@ccia.com]

one time we hunted bear in pike, monroe counties and a few close to that area and private hunt clubs were a concern even with the locals that we had talked to...one showed us a good area..I agree there are lots of open land in state forests etc..but within these are the areas I was talking about. Lots of my farmer friends here in W.Pa have told me they were approached by hunt clubs...they turned them down saying the locals would have no place to go then...I think that was why I posted this in the first place..I have heard out west is sort of the way of the land and we wondered how long before it took over our areas...Yep, let the deer walk if not sure or have a question..and we all know there have been many walk ..unless a meat hunter which most of my family arent..sure we love a good cheeseburger but don't do it illegal..Hey guys, should of seen the HUGE 8pt that walked out in my yard day after archery was over...can't tell me they don't get a copy of the PA game laws too..lol..same with pheseants..they stock in gamelands 285 that one small property is between that and my property and they congrigate under my bird feeders..never shot one ..or the turkey that flock here with those long beards either..even though turkey season was in effect, I just sat on porch, said..you guys are safe..that isn't hunting..right?..as for the g2, g3 etc, I understand all that but as i had said..I have some horns from the past that..even though nice points, I would question a brow or not..since too far up from the base..I have always counted them as such.... Hey, good luck to all hunters this year..have a safe one...and thanks for all the information.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

well didnt have to worry too much about the horn thing...but another good way to look at them is look for the 2 windows on the horns....if can see 2, legal....did get 8pt opening day...was going to post a picture here but I dont know good place to resize photos...if anyone knows, please post...at one time I used tiny pictures but that does not seem to work now..

[skeeter@ccia.com]

[IMG][/IMG]

I will try this add photo to see if it works.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

oops, sorry photo so large, guess my image resize option didn't work. Will have to work on that.

[powell&hyde]

Skeeter, you can use the image re-sizer available from Microsoft at no cost, once installed on you computer, right click the picture you want to resize and choose the size you want. http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=211477