distance/time

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Ok, not sure where to post this but I know with all the brains on here I can get somewhat of an answer to a question.
Shotgun when fired travels 1200 fps..... a bird flies about 20mph... so first thing is at 20mph, how far will you travel in 1 second?.... given the 5280feet in a mile....answer in yards.... and say the bird is @ 40 yards from you in flight... then how far would you have to lead a 20mph bird at 40yd shooting 1200fps ammo?...

[GoodOlBoy]

Well it all depends. Are ya talking about an increasing 20 mph, or a decreasing 20 mph bird? Also is the bird a peasant or a quail? And last but not least do ya have a odometer reading for the bird? All that said I would lead him about this much *holds fingers apart*.

Man I hope somebody can give ya a real answer because..... well I would know how much to lead him if I was there with the gun on my shoulder and an eye down the bead, but word/math problems ain't been my gig since I gradiated High School in 1993. Then again there's always the chance I would pull the trigger then grumble because I shoulda lead him a bit more or less and he got away.

Richard

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Well we crow hunt and are going again in the morning and this is the last weekend in Pa for a few months.. anyhow, we do pretty good with them.. but there are those shots that I just know are easy...but they get away.. at times I feel I not lead enough.. other times I feel I lead too far I know things change all the time.. dealing with speed, distance, all that.. one guy said never sight down the top of the vent.. he does but he keeps the bird on the side of the front of the barrel... said that lead works no matter what distance they are from you because when close, lead isn't much.. when out more, that lead increases even though you still see it beside front of barrel... hum.. just figured would get some suggestions from the pros here at HC... thanks..

[skeet]

Skeeter the answer to the question ias almost impossible to figure. Seriously. Mighta been going 12 at the muzzle. Small shot slows faster..large shot not as fast. The true answer is about 4 ft at a 90 degree angle...maybe a bit more. into the wind with the wind. All makes a diff. But the rub comes when people tell ya this much is 3 1/2 ft. What you see and what I see are different...very different. I have taught many people about shotgun shooting... This is gonna sound a bit different. But it works. Don't ever look at the gun.never. Put the gun up and look at the bird. If you see the front bead.you will miss. Just look at the bird..that little ballistic computer tween your ears will figure the lead. Takes a bit of getting used to. As I told ALL the women I taught to shoot...Look at the bird and all of a sudden it will seem like magic..but you will start hitting. if done correctly at a better than 90% rate. More like 98% Seriously I kept telling those women shooters(I taught a LOT of 'em) Look at the bird..don't try to make a relationship tween the bird and the gun..just look at the bird only...and all of a sudden..it will seem like magic. Heck you can put your chin on top of the comb..but look at the bird..concentrate and it will either die or break.Almost every one of 'em started hitting..and they'd kind of look at me..and say..good grief..it is like magic. I used to shoot lots of crows myself..lots of fun.. Now ...with that said..it was really hard to get the average man to do that. The average American male was BORN knowing how to shoot. LOL

[Adam Helmer]

skeeter,

You received Sage Advice from GOB and skeet. I am not sure I can add much because no two shooting situations are ever the same and thus NOT programmable like, "lead by 3.1 feet." Why?

-because not all birds are at 40 yards, some are at 36.2 yards.

-some birds are crossing shots and others are quartering away.

-sometimes the wind is 12 o'clock, sometimes 6 o'c and sometimes 2:10 o'c.

Ah, but do not despair because wing shoot is an Art and NOT a Science. Therefore, do as skeet said and SWING with your eyes on the bird/clay. Finally, sometimes you connect and other times not. That is the fun of wing shooting and the beauty of an expanding shot pattern down range.

Never say: "Man, that is a lucky shot I thought I'd miss." Man up and act like it is supposed to be that way when you connect. LOL.

Adam

[skeet]

Adam is also correct. What we perceive in distance is not always precisely that far..and another thing. When you shoot at a pattern board..the pattern really looks great?? Remember that shot is strung out in relation to shot size, distance and wind conditions. One reason I could never get into shooting patterns. By the time that shot gets to a crossing bird..only a very few pellets will be in position to hit the bird..some will be in front..some on and some behind. Only time you can really crush a bird is going straight away and coming directly at you. Here is another for the missed shots on those easy straightaways say at trap. Don't know how you could misss?? Most of the time they are not true straightaways. slightly angled. Shoot right at it and voila...another miss. Ask me how I know. What we perceive and what is true are completely different And again..going straight from you..you plant that front sight right on the bird. Remember..if you plainly see that front bead..usually you WILL miss. Ya ain't lookin at the bird/target. Again..ask me how I know. So seriously..as Adam said..shotgun shooting is an Art form. Ask a painter how he paints and he'll just say..what I see is what I paint(an extremely talented artist who lives just down the road told me that). She is very talented even to my eye.. Got her to paint me a small painting. Even the small stuff like mine she gets 3-4 grand for so she must be good for all them people to pay that kinda money.. . So pay attention to the target..not to the gun. It'll happen. with regularity. And Adam's last statement is also a good observation Heck when I was guiding..I will never forget one day..I shot a snow goose at an easy 90 yds. Just couldn't stand it. Hit him with 2 pellets(lead BBs) Amazed the hell out of myself. Led that darn bird by at least 20 ft. Dropped like a rock..the hunting party I had out were dumbstruck..even more than I was. One fellow said holy crap..that was the longest shot he had ever seen. So in great understated brilliance. I said. Well he was pretty close to the longest shot I ever made. They thunk I was the greatest shotgun pointer of all time.. I did not try to dissuade them of that opinion.. hehehehe. Good grief that was a lucky shot..LOL

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Good info from all.. thanks for reply. I know there are too many factors to each situation to just say 3' or 5' etc.. Had fun today and one thing mentioned above was don't look at the front of your gun.. look at target and the rest will fall into play.... does seem to be about the best advice.. Been shooting for years but knowing some that just don't seem to ever miss.. trying to figure their little secret... lol.. Do know as with today.. brand/size shot etc all makes difference.. as today was last day for 3 months, figure take some of the old dove loads out n shoot em up.. what a difference.. so thanks all for advice.. all taken..

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey having fun doing it is what it's all about. Skeet and Adam both know volumes more than I do about bird hunting on any given day of the week. Now squirrel? I dunno I would put myself up against almost any other squirrel hunter around. If only to get to hunt their honey hole to try to win the bet I am a very old school shot-gunner. I like my old single shot 20 gauge H&R Topper with a fixed modified choke and a blue jeans pocket full of #6 field loads. If I come home with an old homemade denim squirrel bag full of bushy tails I am in heaven. If I come home and it's empty I am still in heaven. Know-what-I-mean? Thinking back Skeet's right for his advice as squirrel hunting goes to. I can talk about that bead all day long, don't ever remember seeing it before a chitter-demon went plop off a limb. Don't try to compete with them that don't ever miss. You'll just mess up yer own hunt and get frustrated. Instead pick out a favorite old gun, a favorite old hat, a favorite old dog, etc. Take the above out, have fun, bring 'em all back safe, and you'll never waste a day in the field. That ain't to say I don't ever cheat on my favorite old shotgun now and then, but you know how it is.

Richard

[Jack]

Good advice from all.
A few observations:
It's rare for a crossing bird to be at exactly a 90 degree angle, just as it's rare for a bird to be exactly 30 yards away, or 40 yards, etc. And it's rare for some birds (grouse, woodcock) to be flying at a consistent speed- they are often turning to go around something, so the speed varies.
What's that mean? Well, the advice to use the brain computer and forget numbers is good advice, IMO.
One observation after seeing a few birds killed (and missed) in the last 50 some years. . . very few birds are missed by leading them too much. Lots of birds get missed by not leading them enough.