Man killed in hunting fight

[Adam Helmer]

Guys,

I KNOW the location of all 14 rebar pins that set off my 60-acre farm. I have placed "Posted" signs all around my land. IF some MOPE comes onto my land and proceeds to tell me what stop to get off, Then we will get it sorted out right then and there. Tresspassers have NO standing on private property. I have flagged my property. Any numb nuts 10 or 15 feet inside my flagged line is a TRESSPASSER!

I will challenge all tresspassers on my land. I know tresspassers have the likely potential for armed response to eviction. I take enough gun at port arms with a "Pair" to meet the disgruntled MOPES. I have won all confrontations to date. It IS MY land and I am not brushed aside by PUNKS. IF they want TOUGH, I am the First Responder!

Adam

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by popplecop

In Wisconsin, a Conservation Warden does not your permission to enter your land in performance of doing their duties wether posted or not.

In the example given, I think the warden was actually hunting on the person's property. Last I checked, hunting isn't really part of a conservation officer's duties. This is what I was replying to in Skeeter's post:

We even had a local game warden and his sons shooting geese on a farmers posted land and when told leave, said I am warden and can do what I want so the landowner got his shotgun out and blasted in the air..He was arrested for doing that...

What you wrote, I believe is correct in all 50 states. Any law enforcement officer can enter a person's land without needing permission if they are discharging their law enforcement duties, the exception being a person's house which requires a search warrant. However, hunting on a person's land is a completely different matter.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by petey

As the story goes, the said property owner saw the hunters on his land, went down to kick them off. He stated it was his land and to get off and the hunters (2) said he doesn't know his property very well and that they were not on his land, that his boundary was close, but they were not on his land. The said landowner then went back to his house and got an "assult" weapon (I've heard fully auto AK of which apparently wasn't registered..or of a kind that was a federal offense) and proceded to fire upon the hunters striking one. The hunters fired in return killing the land owner.

Given the landowner's past convictions, and from what the locals say, I'd say this story is more true than what the media printed...which wasn't much at all. Fact is, the landowner fired first since he was shot in the head. Can't do much shooting after that happens.

We have quite a few nut jobs around here that have the attitude of shoot first ask questions later if you even step on their property. I have one that lives not 2 miles from my house. He's been known to shoot holes in vehicles parked along the road near his property, slash tires and shoot at them just because. ILike I said, I'm all for protecting one's property, but within the laws. Some people just need a shrink...from what I'm told this landowner was one of them.

I've hunted with people that have personally confronted trespassers that were hunting their property. If it were me, I wouldn't be doing it. I'd call 911 and leave it at that. Going out to confront somebody I don't know, who is carrying a gun, just sounds like a bad idea all the way around. Law enforcement is trained to handle this stuff, and people probably react better to an LEO in uniform with a gun drawn on them versus me in jeans and a sweater carrying a shotgun.

Several years ago, I was setting up decoys in a field and another group of hunters had planned to hunt the field that morning. The first guy that arrived called his buddy when he saw me in the field and his buddy told him to get out his shotgun and come down and "talk" to me about what was going on. They actually thought I was the guy that stole their decoys the year before. Anyway, how receptive would I have been to somebody approaching me with a shotgun in their hand? Luckily, the guy didn't take that approach, we talked the situation over, got the farm owner's grandson involved, and we both ended up hunting the same blind together that day and having a great time.

[Okie Hog]

My wife and I own three hunting properties in two OK counties. We bought those places for hunting, fishing and recreation: There are no cattle or horses on our property. We paid for those properties
and we pay the taxes on them. They were fenced and posted at considerable expense. I plant 12 acres of game plots every year and provide supplemental food for the game. Our property is posted as provided for in OK law. Only one place ever had a big problem with trespassers and that was because of a hunting club that had leased a
big place across the road.

I am a reaonable man who treats everyone like he wants to be treated. People do make mistakes and trespass without knowing it. However, it really does infuriate me when some perp knowingly trespasses on our property. I will approach every trespasser I see on our land. The guy with the 4 wheeler was arrested by me at gun point. He is now serving a life sentence for crimes he did in TX.

OK is a little different from the eastern states. If a guy threatens you on your own land in this state he can be shot. The prosecutors here are not even required to take a good shoot to the grand jury.

[Swift]

Adam, I applaud your conviction.

Just remember there is always someone out there with a screw loose who is faster on the draw.

Stay safe.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Swift

Adam, I applaud your conviction.

Just remember there is always someone out there with a screw loose who is faster on the draw.

Stay safe.

That is what I was going to write last night, and then decided not to. Also, when there are two or more people, it really makes it tough to win a gun fight. It just isn't worth it in my opinion. Law enforcement is trained for that kind of stuff.

If I happen to be trespassing on a landowner's property while hunting (which has never happened, but I'm just saying) and the landowner came out to meet me with a gun, you can bet I would be seriously on edge about the entire meeting because I have no idea if the guy is a whack job or not. Now, if it is a uniformed officer, even with his/her weapon drawn, you can bet I'll be laying down my gun.

I just do not understand why people want to trespass just to go hunting. It seems like an awful risk just to go hunting.

[Adam Helmer]

Swift,

I never "get in their face" when I tell them to leave my land. From a safe distance, and near good cover, I tell them to leave. If they then execute a fast draw, it will not be fast enough.

Also, the nearby state police have never responded to my calls to evict tresspassers and the Game Wardens DO not enforce tresspass laws in PA. This is a rural county and tresspassers are NOT a law enforcement priority.

Adam

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Adam Helmer

Swift,

I never "get in their face" when I tell them to leave my land. From a safe distance, and near good cover, I tell them to leave. If they then execute a fast draw, it will not be fast enough.

Also, the nearby state police have never responded to my calls to evict tresspassers and the Game Wardens DO not enforce tresspass laws in PA. This is a rural county and tresspassers are NOT a law enforcement priority.

Adam

What would you do then if somebody refused to leave?

That sucks that law enforcement does not enforce trespass laws. I would write them a letter to let them know about the situation, that you have to confront these people yourself, and that bad things could happen. At least that puts them on notice should something bad actually happen and they not respond to your call about the trespass. The game wardens should really enforce that matter.

[Adam Helmer]

fabsroman,

Excellent questions.

Most PA residents who are "First Time Callers" are stunned to find out the PA Wildlife Conservation Officers DO NOT enforce tresspass laws in PA! It is a "No-Brainer for the "bunny cops" to enforce the game/tresspass laws, but they are not invloved for whatever damn reason. As for "What if they don't leave?", I was on my cell phone during the last tresspass incident talking to the SP dispatcher who advised me, "We have no officers to send to your farm." I told him that I knew the call was recorded and my request for assistance was DENIED. I did not have the ability to write a letter at that point. I did have a Garand and gave CLEAR verbal instructions. Since I was out of their shotgun range, they got the "Message" without shots being fired.

If they refuse to leave, then it is their call and the only testimony will be mine. They have ABSOLUTELY NO STANDING and as armed alleged violators, they are the mopes UPPING the ante and I will CALL on my land. I do remind them there is 13,000+/- acres of State Game Land just North of my farm on the next hill. I have not had a person refuse to leave yet. I suspect it is my natural good nature.

Adam

[skeeter@ccia.com]

A little from the original post..News media taking shots at both CCP and Hunting but they jump on that in any story. I just talked to someone that got a 16 pt ..told where got..I said that is posted there and only 1/2 mi from my house..said..yea but owner not live here and never cks..I still not go there..now on another place I hunt, I picked up trash, pop bottles but left all the deer carcas they left behind..slobs..and I know a guy interested in buying this land and hope he does..I hate posted property and even when not posted, ask..first of all maybe they are workin in the fields or have cows..good to know..I guess the fact I lost 13 hunt spots in one year that I hunted since 12 some due to progress but most just someone with more cash than I have and lots of these don't even hunt..that does leave the open areas covered in orange any given day..We have talked over the years on how long would it take before Pa gets like out west where you have to lease a hunt spot if you can even find one..that is when I quit my favorite sport.
Yes the Pgc not enforce tresspass..local issue and is unreal how only the law breakers are covered by laws..your hands are tied if you try to do things the legal way.. I also find it hard to believe there are people that know they are on private land and give owner a hard time about it..they are NOT HUNTERS..they are shooters..I hate poachers too and know of 2 this year..father/son..illegal buck and more doe than licensed..now how to prove it..I would have to spend more time in court than I have and they would prob get off anyhow..and this takes me to another item I am just gettin over..our legal system and government..wow..I never have seen a bigger bunch of idiots than I have in the past year..quick examp..permit needed..call person that does that..they fill out papers..hand it to their other hand.( they also dept that approves)...denied..said papers not filled out correct..had do over..meantime..waste a month..sorry..off base here but maybe in another post sometime..
Pete..thanks for the update on the issue in that neck of woods...we here in Wpa not hear of update..swept under table..but all want to know..Just hope all of you have a save hunt season what is left..Know I passed on bunch of doe but now wish not cause the winter blast is here..brrrr..and older I get more think of head south..is there anyplace free to hunt down there?